Episode 13

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Published on:

21st Aug 2025

EP 13 Talking S**T

The Judgmental Podcast – EP 13: Talking S**T

Hosts: Hugh & Christine

Episode Summary:

In this candid and insightful episode, Hugh and Christine dive deep into the latest Judicial Conduct Commission biannual report, exploring the state of judicial accountability and transparency in Kentucky’s courts. The hosts break down complaint statistics, discuss the challenges of open records requests, and reflect on the public’s perception of judges versus attorneys.

Key Topics:

  • Overview and analysis of the Judicial Conduct Commission’s 2023-2024 report
  • The prevalence and types of complaints against family court and circuit court judges
  • The confidentiality of judicial complaints and the lack of public reprimands
  • The role of social media and public perception in judicial accountability
  • Comparisons between judges and law enforcement in terms of public trust and systemic issues
  • Anecdotes about courtroom experiences, judicial temperament, and the recusal process
  • The importance of transparency, open records, and public access to court proceedings
  • Discussion of the Judgy app and its mission to empower citizens to “judge the judges”

Notable Moments:

  • Christine shares rumors of a judge threatening foster care in a public case
  • Hugh and Christine debate the ethics and effectiveness of judicial recusal
  • The hosts highlight the lack of public outcomes from hundreds of complaints
  • A breakdown of the number of judges and commissioners in Kentucky
  • Reflections on the impact of positive and negative judicial behavior

Resources & Links:

  • Link to the Judicial Conduct Commission’s biannual report (to be included in show notes)
  • Information about the Judge-y app: judge-y.com

Listener Call to Action:

Hugh and Christine invite listeners to share their own stories—both positive and negative—about judges who have made a difference in their lives. They encourage feedback, questions, and suggestions for future topics.

Closing Thoughts:

The episode wraps up with a call for more transparency, accountability, and honest conversation about the state of the judiciary. Stay tuned for future episodes featuring stories of judges who have changed lives for the better.

Thank you for listening to The Judgmental Podcast! For more information, visit judge-y.com and follow us on social media.

Transcript
Speaker:

You are listening to

The Judgemental Podcast.

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We're Hugh and Christine, the Minds

Behind Judgy, the revolutionary app

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that empowers you to judge the judges.

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It's pastime for judicial accountability

and transparency within the courts.

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Prepare for sharp insights, candid

critiques, and unshakable honesty from

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two lawyers determined to save the system.

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We need some justice.

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Justice, my fine justice.

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And I wanna ring, be in public.

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I wanna ring, be in public crowd.

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Yeah.

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/ Hugh: So welcome to

the Judgmental podcast.

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Today we are **** talking

about **** and then probably watching

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some **** and talking about some more

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Christine: Oh my goodness.

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All right.

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We are gonna break down the judicial

Conduct Commission new biannual report.

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I think I misspoke three podcasts

ago and said there was not a new

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one out, and apparently there was.

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Yeah.

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Talking about how many reports were done,

our little viral clip, and we can go

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down the rabbit hole of this information.

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Awesome.

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Hot off the

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Hugh: press is only a year,

year and a half old, but Right.

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Yeah.

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Christine: Also, I would love for someone

out there listening help teach us open

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records requests for the judiciary,

because I think that's something.

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That I can say with a hundred

percent certainty, I do not

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have an expertise in that.

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I think we're entitled to more

information than what they're giving us.

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Hugh: Oh, yeah.

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You know?

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Christine: Yeah.

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Hugh: Well, and I think the

public needs more information.

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Oh, for sure.

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I mean, it's just, it, it's just another

one of those things that's sort of,

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it, it it, it's air of secrecy about

everything that happens with judges.

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Christine: Yep.

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Hugh: Now, do you want the same

thing for all attorney complaints?

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Christine: Well, it's different because

attorneys aren't paid by the taxpayers.

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Hugh: That's true.

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Christine: You know what I mean?

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And we don't have a duty to be impartial.

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Hugh: That's absolutely true.

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Christine: And judges don't have clients.

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You know what I mean?

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It's just like, it's all about.

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The notion judges are the new cops.

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Judges are the new cops.

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I've said it a hundred times.

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The way the system operated to

protect law enforcement for years and

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years and years, ended up imploding

on law enforcement because the bad

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cops took down the whole system.

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Yep.

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When in reality, I would say, I

know I throw numbers out there,

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but it's probably 10 to 20% at the

most that are acting nefariously.

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And it's probably the same

when it comes to judges.

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It's not all of them.

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Hugh: Yeah, I would, I would have

absolutely no idea what the number

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is, but I don't think anybody thinks.

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All of them are, I mean, I know when

people make their, you know, yeah.

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I, I, that was a stupid

thing for me to say.

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Certainly each side, one, one side.

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Cops, everything.

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We support 'em no matter what they do.

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And the other side defund

everything and yeah.

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And it's just, that's

not how the world works.

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Not at all.

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It's black and white.

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Christine: It created this vacuum though.

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And I think that's what's gonna

happen with the judiciary.

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Honestly.

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I think people are so frustrated.

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And some of the comments I get,

I'm like, y'all like, but the

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judges created that system.

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Oh my gosh.

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I forgot to tell you this.

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Remember the podcast we did a couple times

ago about the foster care allegations?

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Yeah.

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So I have heard that there may be a tape

out there that I'm gonna be able to get

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where a judge actually threatened foster

care for parties that couldn't get along.

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That,

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Hugh: that doesn't surprise me at all.

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I would love to see, you know, I is

there I guess we'll have to wait and see

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whether this is, are you talking about

one that's not in a confidential case?

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Not in a confidential case.

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Oh,

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Christine: so that's like either a

circuit court divorce or custody action.

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Hugh: That, that's really something.

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And I, I hate to say that, you

know, if we're talking about all

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cases and, and there are lots of

cases I know that happens a lot more

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often than even I, I probably would

think, and I'm pretty cynical, but

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they're all in cases that we can't.

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Show anybody.

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Yep.

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They're, they're videos that

we can't look at and we can't,

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we certainly can't publicize.

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So if it's actually happened in a

circuit court action, that is public.

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Christine: Yep.

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That's my understanding.

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We haven't gotten it yet.

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Hugh: Any idea what court or what?

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County

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Christine: I do.

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Okay.

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But I don't wanna say for

certain until we get it.

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Now that being said though,

that goes back to everybody

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thinking that all judges are bad.

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And we talked about if judges, you

know, know that this is happening and

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see one of their colleagues making that

threat because someone got divorced.

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Surely that would be enough.

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You would think for the judges,

half the judges are divorced.

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Hell, more of them probably with kids.

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Like they don't have a lot of empathy,

but my God, surely they could put themself

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in the shoes of being a divorced parent.

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And

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Hugh: that's, well, if half of them

are divorced, that puts them right

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up there with the public in general.

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Christine: Yeah, but I mean, if they

thought that a judge would threaten

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to put their child in post, what would

you, I mean, I know that's heavy.

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I don't have children for all the

listeners that know, but like what

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would you do if a judge threatened

to put your kids in foster care

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because you couldn't get along?

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Hugh: Oh, I'd lose it.

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That's

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Christine: what I'm saying.

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And

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Hugh: the funny thing is.

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My, my wife and I, even if we

weren't getting along and hating

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each other, she'd lose it too.

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Yeah.

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We'd be like, we would be united in

our response to the judge, even if

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we couldn't get along, because that

would just, that would set me off.

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There's no way.

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And you can't know how you'd react mm-hmm.

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Until you're sitting there.

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Because I've had clients who I

couldn't believe just sat there and

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didn't say anything when things like

that have happened in court and when

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I've talked to the client afterwards.

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They describe it as just

there's this shock, like, I

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couldn't have heard that, right?

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Mm-hmm.

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Like you just, I don't wanna react

because there's no way this is really

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actually happening and your reaction is

totally different in those circumstances.

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I don't know that mine could be,

because even when it's not my kids,

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when judges have done that and I'm

representing the client, yeah, I tend

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to have a very strong outward reaction.

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I,

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Christine: I just can't imagine

what I would've done as an attorney.

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But I think about all the

times I was quiet too, and just

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like, oh, this judge is nuts.

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Or, oh, this judge has

anger management issues.

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But that is something that does percolate.

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It puts this little seed in the

general public that does make

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it more dangerous for judges.

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Like, obviously, and I wanna be very clear

on this, anyone that wants to come on

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any of our pages, private, public for the

judgmental podcast that wanna threaten

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anybody or talk about that kind of stuff.

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We want nothing to do with that.

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No,

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Hugh: absolutely not.

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And we will not.

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You know, if, if we see it,

we will remove it immediately.

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Absolutely.

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Christine: It doesn't help the

cause I think it's primarily

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bots if it ever happens.

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Like I really think there are people

that are trying to radicalize,

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like say aside is radical.

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But really all we want is transparency.

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Our last podcast we talked about

two judges that we thought were

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doing extraordinary things.

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We wanna talk about the positives.

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Obviously I've never seen a judge threaten

foster care for a divorcing parent.

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So, you know, if I did, I don't

know how I would react at the time.

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I,

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Hugh: you know, it wouldn't surprise me to

see it depends on how old the kids were.

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I can see my wife and I if we were

sitting there at the table and the judge

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had done that, both of us saying, well.

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If you'd have just put 'em in foster

care last year, we'd be getting along.

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Yeah.

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We wouldn't be getting divorced.

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How quickly, how could we make, how

quickly could we make this happen?

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Oh

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Christine: my gosh.

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A levity in the situation.

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Hugh: No, I just, yeah.

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Christine: And, and

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Hugh: I've seen it happen when

they're not a foster care threat, but

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a, a threat to take the child when

a judge is angry at the attorney.

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Mm-hmm.

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For some, for a legal

tactic, not even angry.

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The client.

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And in fact I've seen it in a

case where the client has been

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one of the most praised by all

the people involved in the case.

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'cause they were basically a saint

because the biological parent

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kept screwing up in this case.

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And this, this person was always

there coming in from out of town

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and just putting their life on

hold to, to, to raise this child.

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And I've seen judges threaten

things just 'cause they were

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angry at the attorney, which is.

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Really unbelievable.

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Christine: Oh, I, I think there's no

question if I were to go into court

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in Louisville Family Court, I would

say there are at least three or four

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divisions that there's no way the judges

wouldn't have to recuse, wouldn't you?

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Yes.

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Given my reporting on 'em.

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I agree.

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I mean, and my comments on 'em now,

I don't think they would, I think

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that the TikTok judge would recuse.

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Hugh: You know, I've, I've been in my

career, I've been impressed with a number

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of judges who would recuse if, the last

one that I can remember, the husband

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in a divorce had a new girlfriend,

which was the reason for the divorce.

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But the new girlfriend was publicly

bashing the judge on social media.

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I mean, all over the place, Uhhuh and it,

the judge said, this makes me very angry.

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I'm gonna have to recuse

from this case because of it.

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And I, I just thought.

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I admired the judge for doing it.

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Mm-hmm.

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But the, the advocate in, in me was

just like, are we really creating

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an avenue for people to get judges

switched by just having somebody

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go bad mouth them about a case.

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Christine: Like, I literally thought

about starting a whole business where

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if you drew division Denise Brown,

seven, you would just hire me and

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you could get out of the division.

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Hugh: No, I mean it,

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Christine: I mean, seriously.

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I don't think that she

could hear any cases.

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I, I could be in front of her.

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I think the Supreme Court

would say absolutely not.

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I think it's kind of a smart

business model, to be honest.

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Hugh: I I think you'd run

into some issues with that.

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Christine: I know's some ethical

stuff, which is why I never did it.

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Hugh: Yeah, yeah.

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Christine: But it's funny.

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I mean, I don't know, but it's what

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Hugh: I, no, I, I was sure there were

certain judges who wouldn't recuse

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if I was on the cases, but could

never actually be impartial with

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cases that I had in front of them.

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I had to discuss that with clients

that would come in and, and especially

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back when, when here in Jefferson

County, the cases were apportioned

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to the judges by last name.

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Yeah.

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By by wife's last name.

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Or either There were, there were ways

you could tell when you were speaking

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to a client for the first time,

what division they would end up in.

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Mm-hmm.

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I would have to tell them that

I, you don't, you don't want me,

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you're gonna wanna talk to someone

else here or somewhere else.

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Yep.

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Same to go in front of that court that.

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That stunk, but it is just,

I know this judge cannot be

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impartial, but will not recuse.

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Christine: Yeah, it's weird too, 'cause

like, I hope you don't mind me saying

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this, but I remember when you recently

kind of retired from the practice of

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law, and I remember about a year ago I

heard something that it was like Hugh

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Barrow, the judges are so mad at him

and I'm like, we had cases together.

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I saw you in court.

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I don't remember you being

like in any capacity.

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Top 30% difficult to deal with.

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Like not on one occasion.

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Hugh: I didn't, I mean, when it came

to other attorneys, I knew other

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people were just doing their job.

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Yeah, that's, and I, I would fight

harder, but I would be, I would be honest

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about it and it wouldn't be personal.

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And as long as the other person wasn't.

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I could be really friendly with someone

that I had a super contentious case with.

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Same,

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Christine: but like, I never

even saw you in any way.

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Like what I would say,

quote unquote, misbehave.

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I mean, that's the wrong word in court.

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I, I've never misbehaved in court.

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Have you ever seen me like no.

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Start yelling or any of this stuff?

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No.

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It's just like actually benefit

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Hugh: to it.

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No, you're not serving your client.

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The people that do that,

they're making up for something.

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They either have a bad

case, they're not prepared.

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I don't know.

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I, I made, I made plenty of

litigators, Matt, even people that

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I'm still good friends with, would

I, I would make them stand up and

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come at me in court, and that's

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Christine: crazy to me.

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Hugh: Like, yeah.

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I mean, but that.

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But that was sort of, I mean, that's

part of the game, but I don't,

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it's different when it's a judge.

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You don't do that to the court.

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Christine: But my point is just

like, I don't think you are

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difficult to get along with.

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I've never seen you be late to court.

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I've never seen, I've never heard

that you don't show up on time.

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I've never really heard

complaints from your clients.

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Now obviously none of us

bat a thousand, yada, yada.

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Sure.

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You know what I mean?

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Like same with me.

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Like it's just bizarre who the

judges pick as the ones that

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are quote unquote troublesome.

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And I think it's justs Smart Attorneys

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Hugh: well and appeals.

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Christine: That appeal.

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Yeah.

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And that hold them to their

feet and aren't afraid to file

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stuff that benefit their client.

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Hugh: Yeah.

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I mean, if you file Writs Yep.

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If you point out to the court of appeals.

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Blatant errors or, you know,

repeated violations of due process,

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and you call it what it is,

you don't beat around the bush.

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Mm-hmm.

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And say this, you know, here's

what the law says about that.

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And they didn't really follow the law.

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You call it what it is.

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Yeah.

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This person was deprived of

their child without any kind of a

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hearing, without even getting to

open their mouth or without even

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being led into a, into a hearing.

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You have to argue that way

because that's what happened.

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I didn't, and that's your job.

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I didn't make that error happened.

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I pointed it out to the Court of appeals,

but I, I, people tended to not like that,

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especially when those cases came back

and they were published to make a point.

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Christine: Yeah.

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And I think it's like one of those things

that if there was one, when it comes

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to the court of appeals, how I would

say this, literally you have to make.

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Numerous, typically numerous procedural

or discretionary mistakes before the

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court of appeals is gonna overturn.

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It's not like an oopsie

thing, you know what I mean?

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Oh, sure.

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Hugh: There's, are there, you

know, number one, family court

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so much is discretionary uhhuh.

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The judges are given wide latitude in so

many of the issues that are often appealed

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or that we, we deal with most often.

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We're often aggrieved about mm-hmm.

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In rulings that go against our client.

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So they're harder to appeal anyway.

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But there are procedural.

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There were procedural errors, and

then oftentimes you might have a

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procedural error, but it probably

didn't really affect the result.

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Yep.

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And the court of appeals would be smart

and say, okay, this is harmless error.

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Mm-hmm.

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It is error, but it didn't seem to affect

anybody's rights or anything here, so

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we're not gonna overturn because of it.

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Christine: Oh, yeah.

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And you're never gonna find in

a jury trial or a trial that

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there's not harmless error.

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I mean, there could be 47 harmless errors.

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Hugh: Yeah.

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I mean, the last few published

opinions that I had were noteworthy.

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Only because they were published

and they had nothing that was novel.

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Legally.

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Christine: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Like

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Hugh: you would just, there was

not a single issue in there that

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hadn't been before the court of

appeals a thousand or 10,000 times.

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I think they were just fed up and

they published it to make a point.

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Mm-hmm.

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Whereas in the past you always

think, oh, it'll only be

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published if it's something new.

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That hasn't happened before.

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Yep.

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And we were getting just mundane,

blatant violations of, of due process.

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And they were publishing

them and it's embarrassing.

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Christine: Yeah.

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I saw, I was speaking to somebody out

of Florida and they were giving like,

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kind of like a TED Talk version of

that, and they were saying, you know,

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the court of appeals never overturns.

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And I was like, absolutely.

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The court of appeals in Kentucky is very

much the trajectories moving towards

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holding family court accountable.

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In my opinion.

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I've never seen some of the

opinions that came down.

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Hugh: No, it's, it's, it's unprecedented.

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Mm-hmm.

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It stable.

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It's really unprecedented.

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I, I, I used to bring things up

to the higher courts that were.

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And my opinion were equally bad.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And you just.

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They, they just didn't seem to care.

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Mm-hmm.

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They would make a ruling based

on something else and not even

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get to the controversial point.

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They would just want to steer clear of it.

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Mm-hmm.

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For whatever reason, it is really changed.

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Christine: Yep.

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I think it's enough is enough.

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And I think they're seeing so many

of it, and that goes to these, this

396

:

report, so we've got the 2023 to

:

397

:

to July, and in that time period,

family court judges had the highest.

398

:

Number of complaints filed and

we will put the link to this

399

:

PDF in our show notes, y'all.

400

:

But it looks like in family, the

complaints in those, that two

401

:

year period 112 from family court.

402

:

Hugh: Yeah.

403

:

I'm actually really surprised at how

close the district court is behind that.

404

:

And you know, the reason I say that

is district court, I mean, sorry,

405

:

not district court, circuit Court.

406

:

Circuit court is very close

at 1 0 4 and in circuit court.

407

:

Juries are making a lot of the

determinations that the family

408

:

court judges make in family court.

409

:

So the family court, the

judge does everything.

410

:

They're making all of the determinations,

the factual, the legal, everything.

411

:

Whereas in so many cases in circuit court.

412

:

The judge is more of a referee

on the rules and and handles how

413

:

the case moves forward, but the

jury makes the ultimate decision.

414

:

Christine: Yeah.

415

:

Well, if you look though at what the

allegations were, I think that there

416

:

is only like the legal errors, only

1 22, which is still not even really

417

:

like the determination, but you've

got bias, conflict of interest,

418

:

discrimination, campaign contact.

419

:

Conduct ex parte judicial temperament,

delay in administering docket, and

420

:

then legal error, which is the highest

It's, but I think that goes to show

421

:

though, that like we talked about last

time, people aren't filing complaints

422

:

'cause they don't like the decisions.

423

:

They're filing a complaint because

the judge is either showing alleged

424

:

bias, conflict discrimination,

you know, ex parte communication.

425

:

So they're filing these

complaints for legitimate reasons.

426

:

Hugh: Yeah, no, I agree.

427

:

I, I think, you know, you

see legal errors at 1 22.

428

:

The next category, judicial temperament,

which is no surprise, is 52.

429

:

Mm-hmm.

430

:

So, I mean, by and large, the largest

category by a, by a huge stretch

431

:

is legal error, which is one of

the, what I was really referring

432

:

to is that I, I'm surprised.

433

:

That circuit and family are that close.

434

:

Christine: Well also circuit,

you've gotta think, circuit's gonna

435

:

encompass a lot of family law cases

and counties that don't have family

436

:

Hugh: court.

437

:

Yeah, that's, that's really smart.

438

:

I didn't, I didn't think about that.

439

:

I keep thinking of the, the, mm-hmm.

440

:

The circuits that I practice in that

have an established family court

441

:

Christine: and there was one filed on a

Supreme Court justice, which I find to be.

442

:

Fascinating.

443

:

Like I would love to read that

complaint because I wonder if it

444

:

was something during, we just had

a campaign cycle that would've been

445

:

during this time period, I think.

446

:

Or was it an attorney that filed it?

447

:

You know, I think that's bizarre.

448

:

I've never read a Kentucky, obviously,

we haven't read many, if any,

449

:

really, of these judicial complaints

because they are confidential.

450

:

But I found, I found that to

just be very, very bizarre.

451

:

Hugh: I'm also.

452

:

I, I, I wanna know how they distinguish

between domestic relations and family.

453

:

Christine: Well, domestic relations

would be a commissioner, DRC.

454

:

Hugh: Oh,

455

:

Christine: okay.

456

:

So a domestic relations commissioner

and a master commissioner are

457

:

essentially the same thing.

458

:

Different counties have them built

into the structure differently.

459

:

They essentially do the exact

same thing though, but also master

460

:

commissioners can do some of like the

probate stuff is my understanding.

461

:

I'm not a hundred percent, but master

commissioners, if you look historically

462

:

through the Commonwealth of Kentucky,

oftentimes significant ethical issues.

463

:

For master commissioners.

464

:

We had a master commissioner that got a

big predicament in both Bullitt County

465

:

and Eastern Kentucky while I was there.

466

:

Well,

467

:

Hugh: they still also broken out epo, DVOs

into a category and dependency, neglect

468

:

and abuse into a separate category.

469

:

So

470

:

Christine: they'd be held Well, they

would be held in district court too.

471

:

District court in other places.

472

:

Hugh: Yeah.

473

:

No, I agree.

474

:

But there's gotta be some,

there's some overlap in those.

475

:

Like I, I don't understand

how, let's say if we applied

476

:

this chart to Jefferson County

477

:

Christine: mm-hmm.

478

:

Hugh: There's four categories

that would all be handled by

479

:

the exact, the same judges?

480

:

Christine: Yes.

481

:

Maybe even five

482

:

specialty courts.

483

:

If you're talking about, oh, we,

we do have a recovery family court,

484

:

and that's run by the TikTok Judge.

485

:

Hugh: Okay.

486

:

Christine: But yes, and it's like

who decides how these are allocated?

487

:

Again, that goes through the transparency.

488

:

It's like, is it an actually an

attorney that's de determining

489

:

what category these fall in?

490

:

It looks like though, what

proceedings resulted in complaints.

491

:

Criminal is the highest.

492

:

But then, like you said, they

bifurcate, they not bifurcate, but they

493

:

make the different ones for family.

494

:

I didn't realize that that's a good catch.

495

:

Or you got a multiple, I

wonder what that could be.

496

:

Hugh: Yeah, and I, and I would

think that if you combined.

497

:

All of the ones that are handled

by the family court in places that

498

:

have a family court, it would be so

far above all the other categories.

499

:

Totally.

500

:

It's not because they've broken

it down into its components.

501

:

Christine: And then from that, those

complaints it looks like there was only

502

:

one private, how do you say that word?

503

:

Hugh: Where?

504

:

Christine: I thought it

was a private reprimand.

505

:

Yeah.

506

:

AdMon.

507

:

Wait,

508

:

Hugh: admonition.

509

:

Christine: Admonition?

510

:

Is that how you say it?

511

:

Hugh: Mm-hmm.

512

:

Christine: God bless.

513

:

I can't read.

514

:

So they had one private admonition

and one private reprimand.

515

:

I wonder if the TikTok judge

was a private admonition.

516

:

How do you say that again?

517

:

Hugh: Admonition.

518

:

I we're gonna cut.

519

:

How would we find that out?

520

:

Christine: You can't.

521

:

We can't find it out.

522

:

Hugh: No.

523

:

Christine: So there was not one

single public reprimand for a two year

524

:

period out of this many complaints.

525

:

Not one judge did something.

526

:

Hugh: Hundreds and hundreds of complaints.

527

:

Christine: Hundreds.

528

:

That's egregious.

529

:

I misread this earlier today.

530

:

336 total complaints and two private

outcomes that we will never know.

531

:

There was probably one private

reprimand that would be on the website.

532

:

And then look, we've got commission

members, we've got the chair,

533

:

and then we have a bunch of

attorneys that are on there.

534

:

Then we have staff.

535

:

Now the executive

secretary is an attorney.

536

:

But we also have quote unquote political

appointments for the commission members.

537

:

And I would like to do a deep

dive into who some of these

538

:

people are, but I don't know.

539

:

I wonder what do you think?

540

:

Hugh: I'm interested

actually in the 16.77%.

541

:

Of the complaints that were

not related to litigation.

542

:

Christine: Fascinating.

543

:

What page are you on?

544

:

Hugh: Fourth, or sorry, third,

545

:

Christine: not.

546

:

Related.

547

:

Well, I would say that would

be social media, right?

548

:

Hugh: It that's not litigation

related except for, I don't know.

549

:

Would it be when you're putting

litigation on social media?

550

:

Christine: Oh my gosh.

551

:

I know.

552

:

I mean, I maybe but I do think

they need to change the rules

553

:

as far as this social media, and

you and I have talked about this.

554

:

I had several calls this week.

555

:

But these judges, I think they

wanna act like they're victims.

556

:

Like, oh my gosh, Christine's

putting out our social media post.

557

:

Your social media user handle is

judge so-and-so, like if President

558

:

Donald Trump did it on social

media, that's fair game, right?

559

:

Hugh: Oh, it's fair game.

560

:

It's absolutely fair game.

561

:

I think you're putting it out there.

562

:

Christine: Yes.

563

:

On a public setting.

564

:

Well,

565

:

Hugh: I mean, and this is, this is

a bigger topic that I can't wait

566

:

to get into in the future about.

567

:

Different types of press in the courtroom.

568

:

I guess that's how I'll put it.

569

:

The need for press in the courtroom.

570

:

Mm-hmm.

571

:

To one extent.

572

:

And then the use of social

media in the courtroom.

573

:

By people within the court system.

574

:

Yep.

575

:

Being something completely different.

576

:

Christine: I think it's a perfect example

of like have your cake and eat it too.

577

:

Like all the judges that sit there

and record from the bench and they'll

578

:

be like, hi, this is Judge Show.

579

:

And so I just wanna say that it is

Gun Safety Week or Hi Judge show.

580

:

And so it is Child Abuse

Awareness Week that is utilizing

581

:

the bench to run your campaign.

582

:

And people that try to run against them,

they can't utilize the bench like that.

583

:

It's inappropriate.

584

:

It doesn't have a, it's

not an even playing field.

585

:

And we've noticed when we go down to do

our judicial roll calls over and over

586

:

and over, and this didn't use to happen.

587

:

Every door has a sign, no

photos, no video, no photos, no.

588

:

Why?

589

:

Did you ever see that before?

590

:

Hugh: No.

591

:

I, I remember I practiced for

years before I realized it

592

:

was a prohibition against it.

593

:

I saw someone in a case, I guess,

someone that was just there watching

594

:

for support for one side had a camera

ad, it was actually a grandfather who

595

:

was a potential custodial candidate.

596

:

Temporary custodial candidate got caught.

597

:

They had their phone up and they

were recording the testimony of

598

:

one of the parties and just got.

599

:

Blown up by the Judge Ford and almost

held in contempt and the attorney got

600

:

yelled at for not prepping their client.

601

:

I mean not, or for prepping the, the wit.

602

:

I guess they weren't even witnesses,

the people that were there

603

:

with their side to not record.

604

:

And I thought, okay, I'm gonna remember.

605

:

No photos, no video.

606

:

But you certainly never saw signs,

didn't hear anything about it.

607

:

Christine: I mean, I think it's just where

that comes from, the role they make up.

608

:

Sure.

609

:

And I don't think that they can

really enforce contempt probably,

610

:

unless you have actual note.

611

:

I don't actual notice.

612

:

They all violate it.

613

:

Jesus.

614

:

Well now they do.

615

:

Hugh: I mean now you're walking

in, you see the big sign.

616

:

That's probably why the sign is there.

617

:

Christine: But I mean, you don't

have a, is that actual notice for,

618

:

to read the sign before you walk in?

619

:

Maybe for us as lawyers, I don't know.

620

:

I

621

:

Hugh: I mean, you're deemed to have

read that cell phone contract you have.

622

:

Christine: I will tell you that when we

were in court, Hugh is much more ballsy

623

:

than I am in the sense that like, I try to

not get on my phone and keep my everything

624

:

out there just because I'm afraid they're

gonna come over and think I'm recording.

625

:

I've not done that.

626

:

Mm-hmm.

627

:

You had your little tablet out and we're

like taking notes and stuff in court and

628

:

I've got my, like, handwritten notes.

629

:

I wonder, oh, I

630

:

Hugh: lived on that thing in court.

631

:

I think anybody that I've practiced

in front of would be sitting

632

:

in there would, would just be

used to seeing that tablet out.

633

:

Well, that's what I used to do

634

:

Christine: with my cell phone, but

I just feel like we're gonna be, I

635

:

don't know, I'm like a little bit

more of a scaredy cat, I guess.

636

:

Hugh: I didn't, I didn't even, didn't

even cross my mind that someone would,

637

:

would think that because I, I'm just

so used to having that in court.

638

:

Christine: No, when I

went to court and Yeah.

639

:

You're so, close in time when I went

for the baby case, I could tell and.

640

:

Well, I could tell that the bailiff had

been instructed, kind of like if Sure.

641

:

You know, but I don't wanna say

anything about the sheriff's office

642

:

or any of that kind of stuff.

643

:

But yeah, I, I just think it's so bizarre.

644

:

Now we are media.

645

:

I do think we can record

in court and set up.

646

:

I think we probably have to

give them like a day notice.

647

:

Yeah.

648

:

I

649

:

Hugh: mean, there's gonna be some, we're

gonna cross that bridge and we're gonna

650

:

have to figure out the protocol for it.

651

:

Christine: Do you guys like that?

652

:

We wanna know kind of what

you think, like, what you like

653

:

about what we're reporting on.

654

:

We are just dropping so much content.

655

:

We really wanna know

what stories you have.

656

:

We'll post this Judicial

Conduct commission.

657

:

But I really think that

this is truly crazy.

658

:

And you know, what did a breakdown of

how many judges are in the commonwealth?

659

:

No.

660

:

Yeah, I thought that

was so fascinating too.

661

:

'cause I'd never had been

able to find that information.

662

:

So we've got seven Supreme Court judges.

663

:

14 Court of Appeals,

97 circuits, 61 family.

664

:

So that shows you two, how few family

court judges there are and how many

665

:

complaints I didn't even 114 district

court judges, 45 trial commissioners,

666

:

120 master commissioners and 18

domestic relations commissioners.

667

:

Which is judgey.

668

:

Judge y.com,

669

:

which will be the app, you will

have the capability of judging

670

:

all of these individuals.

671

:

Yes.

672

:

Just like they judge you.

673

:

And this will be completely neutral

and we can't wait to get the

674

:

video recordings and all of that.

675

:

Any comments on that?

676

:

Anything you think?

677

:

Hugh: No, I, the, I'm surprised

that there are that few.

678

:

Domestic relations commissioners

given how few family courts there are.

679

:

Christine: I know.

680

:

I thought that, I guess they're

681

:

Hugh: just more.

682

:

Big circuits that are multiple county

where you have one judge that that

683

:

covers two three of maybe four counties.

684

:

Christine: Well, it's just like, if

you even think about in our region,

685

:

just how many family court judges,

there are seven big percentage of them.

686

:

It's team.

687

:

Yeah.

688

:

I think that we practice.

689

:

Don't quote my math on that, but

I think that goes to show how many

690

:

family court judges, you know.

691

:

Get complaints because

there are so many more.

692

:

I mean, really two thirds family

court compared to circuit?

693

:

Hugh: No, no.

694

:

I mean that's an important,

that's an important point.

695

:

There are so few compared to the

others that that really stands out.

696

:

That family,

697

:

Christine: mm-hmm.

698

:

Hugh: Gets more complaints than anyone

else, and there are far fewer of them.

699

:

Christine: Oh my goodness.

700

:

Well, I think that wraps it up for today.

701

:

You guys send us some positive stories

about some judges out there that have

702

:

changed your lives for the better.

703

:

And we would love to report on that.

704

:

We will talk, I'll talk about some of the

judges that changed my life next time.

705

:

I think that we should do that.

706

:

And some of the, I'm sure you've

got mentor judges that absolutely,

707

:

literally, I mean, literally

have changed the trajectory of my

708

:

life and I've seen them do that.

709

:

For other for people that

appeared before them.

710

:

So thank y'all.

711

:

Judgy.

712

:

We want the good, the bad,

the ugly and the gossip.

713

:

Hugh: Thanks guys.

714

:

/ Next call.

715

:

We need some justice, justice, justice.

716

:

And I wanna ring bells in public.

717

:

I wanna ring bes in public nor crowd.

718

:

Yeah, but I To the fo Yeah.

719

:

I To the fo Yeah.

720

:

I to the fo fo teaser.

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About the Podcast

The JudgeMental Podcast
From the Creators of Judge-y
The JudgeMental Podcast features two attorneys, Hugh and Christine, who bring over three decades of combined litigation experience to the mic. Now venturing into a bold new initiative—"Judge-y", a website and soon-to-be app—they aim to give lawyers and litigants a platform to evaluate judges and promote accountability within the judiciary.

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