Episode 12

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Published on:

19th Aug 2025

EP 12 Two out of Four Ain't Bad?

The Judgmental Podcast – Two out of Four Ain't Bad?

Hosts: Hugh & Christine

Episode Summary:

In this episode, Hugh and Christine dive deep into the realities of judicial accountability and transparency in the court system. They discuss their recent “judicial roll call,” revealing surprising statistics about judge attendance and courtroom activity. The hosts share candid insights on the challenges of family court, the roles of GALs (Guardians ad Litem) and FOCs (Friends of the Court), and the systemic issues that arise from overworked court-appointed professionals.

Key Topics:

  • Judicial roll call results: attendance rates and what they reveal about court operations.
  • The workload and expectations of judges, including public salary transparency and vacation policies.
  • The influence and accountability of GALs and FOCs, and the difficulty in tracking their appointments.
  • The “path of least resistance” in court: how reports and recommendations shape outcomes.
  • The importance of public records, campaign donations, and the need for greater transparency.
  • Reflections on the challenges of filing judicial complaints and the effectiveness of oversight bodies.
  • A featured “clip of the week” analyzing a judge’s reaction to a guilty plea in criminal court.
  • The impact of social media and public perception on the judiciary.

Notable Moments:

  • Shout-outs to judges who stood up for due process during the pandemic.
  • Honest discussion about the realities of legal advocacy, client strategy, and the limits of the system.
  • Calls to action for listeners to get involved, stay informed, and demand transparency from their courts.

Connect with Us:

  • Website: judge-y.com
  • Instagram: @kentuckychristine
  • YouTube: Judging the Judges

Subscribe, share, and join the conversation as we continue to shine a light on the people and processes shaping our justice system!

Transcript
Speaker:

You are listening to

The Judgemental Podcast.

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We're Hugh and Christine, the Minds

Behind Judgy, the revolutionary app

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that empowers you to judge the judges.

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It's pastime for judicial accountability

and transparency within the courts.

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Prepare for sharp insights, candid

critiques, and unshakable honesty from

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two lawyers determined to save the system.

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We need some justice.

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Justice, my fine justice.

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And I wanna ring, be in public.

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I wanna ring, be in public crowd.

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Yeah.

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Christine: /All right.

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Welcome to the Judgmental podcast.

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We just did the judicial

roll call, July 31st.

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Thank you.

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Michael Sternberg, out of Nevada.

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He's an advocate for family court reform.

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He suggested the time.

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How many were there?

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Hugh: Family court.

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Five.

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We had seven over at district court

and we had nine in circuit court.

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Christine: Yep.

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So it's 21 out of 39, which

is a little bit more than 50%.

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Hugh: Yep.

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It was exactly 50% of the family court.

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Christine: Yep.

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And I, I'm noticing a pattern.

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I feel like district court is

really like holding it down.

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Right?

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They, they seem to be the

ones with the most judges.

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Most of the time,

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Hugh: and it's usually one

floor, one very busy floor.

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Yeah.

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Today it was, we had two busy floors.

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Each time we've been before, it's

just been one floor with everyone on

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it, and the rest just looked dead.

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Christine: Yeah.

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And I do think that district

court is really probably just

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operating at this capacity.

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So seven out of 16, I don't think the most

we've ever seen was a Monday morning and

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we had, goodness, I think we had nine.

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Right?

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Hugh: Yeah.

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, It was.

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I, I should have my phone.

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I have the notes, but it was shocking.

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It was, it was very busy.

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Christine: Yeah, but I mean, well, nine

outta 16 is still barely more than 50%.

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Hugh: Yeah.

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I, I did mention that while we

were over, it's like, oh, this

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is a surprising number of judges.

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And I, I thought, how sick is that?

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Yeah.

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That it's surprising that

we are a little over 50%.

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And I was, I was, it made

me happy to see that many.

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Christine: Well, and you gotta think

like $6 million nearly in taxpayer

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salaries is what's paid to these judges,

and I'm rounding up a little bit.

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But that being said, if they're operating

generally we've had as low as about

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33% and we've had as much as 71%.

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Certainly.

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I think that's somewhat concerning.

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Hugh: A little bit concerning, but

, I'm more concerned with, you know,

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I think you're getting those numbers

m the, the writers of Project:

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Christine: L-O-L-O-L.

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Yeah.

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Flashback Alison Russell.

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How you doing sweetheart?

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We would love to have you on the podcast

if you're listening for the first time.

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We had a local Louisville

litigator that insinuated that

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we were a part of Project 2025.

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We are not conspiracy theorist,

although I'm leaning into a little

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bit independently as Kentucky

Christine, which you love.

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LOL but truly we, there's nothing that

we are doing in, we have no control

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over whether or not the judges go

to work or have the courtrooms open.

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That's right.

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Right.

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Judgey is not giving them a heads up

of when we're coming, but generally

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speaking, between the hours of, you

know, nine 30 and four, I expect for

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the most part, courtrooms to be open.

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That's my expectation.

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Say

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Hugh: nine 30.

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Christine: Yeah.

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I know dockets sometimes

start at eight 30.

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Hugh: Must be nice to

start your day at nine 30.

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Christine: Right?

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It's like, and then we have

the judge that is doing the

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Judge Derwin Webb Division 10.

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We've talked about him previously.

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He is the judge that has done

64 podcasts and we are on, I

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think we're recording our 10th.

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I don't even know, honestly, we've

published six and it is a full-time job.

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. Hugh: It's shocking.

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Yeah, I'm, I'm really surprised at how

I'm finding time after hours, weekends,

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anytime where I have 15 minutes before

my family goes somewhere, I run back

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and start doing some more editing.

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It is so much work.

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Christine: It is so much work.

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I mean, I would say we usually

start texting each other

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between like seven and seven 30.

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And then I think usually it's

like we're still working on stuff.

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One of us is at 10 30, 11, 12 at night.

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Absolutely.

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I mean, probably like

25, 26 days straight.

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And I love it.

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Don't get me wrong.

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I mean, and , this is our profession now.

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I mean, this is our job.

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That being said, we, you know,

Derwin Webb outta Division 10 is

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a full-time family court judge.

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I have no earthly idea how

he's had the time to do this.

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Maybe that's why people

are waiting on orders now.

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He was in court today.

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He had a

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Hugh: busy docket.

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Christine: Yeah, there were about

six or seven, maybe eight people

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outside and we ran into one of the

notorious GALs, FOC appointments.

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Did he say hi to you?

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Hugh: No.

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Ignored me as if I didn't exist, but.

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I can't say that I, I was warm and

fuzzy toward him as either, so.

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Christine: Fair.

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Hugh: Yeah.

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Christine: We're talking

about Jim Murphy, GAL and FOC.

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We talked about him significantly

on two or three podcasts ago.

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He is a court appointed guardian ad litem

in front of the court that is appointed

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on honestly, probably hundreds of cases.

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Hugh: It's hard.

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I think I've heard from him.

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That's hundreds.

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Christine: Oh wow.

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Hugh: But yeah,

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Christine: and so we can't get that

information to you in completely accurate.

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And the reason for that is the

docket that we saw today where the

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judge was, is a confidential docket.

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So he is appointed as a GAL or FOC.

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He actually was coming outta the

courtroom and asking to speak to two

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children, which were likely his clients.

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But there is no way to ascertain how many

appointments he has on a confidential

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docket, at least that I'm aware of.

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Hugh: Well.

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Running his name through Court Net online,

but you can't tell which ones are active.

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Christine: Well, you, but you can only

tell if you run his name up on court net.

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You'll only see the appointments for

public records, not juvenile actions on

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the dependency, neglect, and abuse docket.

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Hugh: So they don't even

show up as a listing.

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Mm-hmm.

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Christine: So even if we

can't get that information.

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Which Susan Bassi out of California

is doing a lot of open records

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requests about how much some of the,

they call 'em minor's counsel in

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California, how much they are billing

and how many appointments they have.

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And I just think that for the sake of

transparency, what's the problem in

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giving the public that information?

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Hugh: I would love to know.

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Christine: Yeah, I would love to know.

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We don't have to get the kids' names

or anything like that, but just,

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Hey, Jim Murphy was appointed to

372 cases this year as a GA or FOC.

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Hugh: Yeah, I mean, what what's

always concerning to me is when.

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You know, children's counsel, GAL or

FOC, the generally the same pool of

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people that do both appointments here in

Kentucky and in especially in Jefferson

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County, they're sitting in the courtroom

and the court will find a case where

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someone will say, we probably need an

FOC or a GAL, and they'll scan the room

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and say, you know, for instance, Mr.

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Murphy, you available to take

anything on, and you never hear

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anyone say, no, I'm, I'm busy.

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I, I really don't have the

capacity to take more on.

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It's always yes.

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Always.

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Yeah.

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I'll just take another.

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And you know that the cases that you

have going on at that moment can't

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get any attention because there's way

too much reliance on those people,

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and they have way too many cases.

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Christine: In fact, I've even seen

attorneys take your advice strategically

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and try to be uber, uber polite.

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And Your honor, you know,

Jim Murphy is great.

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That being said, I know how busy he is.

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Hugh: Mm-hmm.

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Christine: And the judge is

like, I'm doing it anyway.

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Hugh: Or they'll ask him, Mr.

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Murphy, you too busy to handle this.

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Oh, no, no, no, your Honor.

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I can handle it.

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Christine: Which we get so many complaints

and we do have personal knowledge.

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This is not, the personal knowledge

is not allegedly, but we have personal

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knowledge of cases that we have

had where he has not met the child

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or children to our satisfaction.

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Right.

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Hugh: Or at all.

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Christine: Which I just, we go back

to this all the time and I know

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everybody listening is, this is one

of the hot button issues , but you

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cannot, in my opinion, represent

your client without mating them.

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Hugh: Well, I mean, I think

there are distinctions.

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So if you're FOC, you're not

necessarily representing, you're

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not representing a client fact.

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If you're GAL mm-hmm.

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You are.

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Yeah.

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So if you're FOC or a fact

witness, my issue is when a fact

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witness, an expert fact witness.

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Testifies about the children.

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So with the best interest of the child,

all of these people have to act under the

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law within the best interest of the child.

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And the best interest of the child is

set out in Kentucky in KRS 403.270,

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and it lists a bunch of factors that you

have to consider a judge has to consider.

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And one of the very first ones is

the wishes of the child or children.

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Mm-hmm.

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And so I don't know how you can testify

about the best interests of the child

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and talk about what the children want.

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If you haven't spoken with them

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Christine: church

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Hugh: and you're not allowed to

talk about what other people say

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the children want, that's hearsay.

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And there, there are exceptions

to hearsay and there are certain

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exceptions that apply to FOC reports.

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Mm-hmm.

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But those are ignored and.

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Information, is obtained

from third parties.

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Instead of going to the source and

actually speaking with the children and

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speaking with the, they will find one

person to get all the information from

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and report it as if they've done a full

evaluation or a full investigation.

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Christine: Right.

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And I think there is

some argument to be made.

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That you have all of these people

in these custody or divorce actions,

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GAL's, FOCs, custodial evaluations,

court appointed therapist.

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But we have something in

the law called bolstering.

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And what can happen is like if you're

in trial, you can't literally te

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have eight people testify to the

exact same thing, like a jury case.

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Right.

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Is that your understanding of it?

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Hugh: Ish from, from, from an advocate

point of view, I'll have as many

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people say the important stuff as I

can until somebody tells me to shut up.

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But yeah, that it's bad practice.

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Christine: Well, and I think

that there is an objection to it.

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Sure.

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And you'll see it sustained

in if someone makes it.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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You'll see it in sustained in criminal.

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Cases all day, right?

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Yeah.

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Because there's also a standard

that it has to be, it can't be

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more prejudicial than probative.

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And what that means is, you know, we can't

have a trial where someone's on for a

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crime and we're gonna have eight days of

just what a piece of shit this person is.

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Right.

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That is more prejudicial than probative.

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And also there are other exceptions.

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We could go down the rabbit hole

of character, evidence, yada, yada.

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But what happens in these family

court cases is when you have all

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of these experts and six or seven

people, it's a very small circle.

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We're appointing the same, typically

court appointed therapists, the

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same pool of GALs FOCs, the same

pool of custodial evaluators.

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A

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Hugh: very small pool.

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Yes, very small pool.

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A handful of people.

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And if you, for all of the cases,

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Christine: one of them on.

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To think a certain kinda way,

they kind of all fall in line.

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Like if a custodial evaluator

will be like, oh my gosh, this

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mom is alienating, then everybody

will start writing their reports.

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Oh my gosh.

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Sure.

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It's alienation.

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Yep.

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There's really no independent thought.

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And what I mean by that is just

like, are we just setting up a system

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to insulate itself from liability

and for an abusive or toxic parent

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potentially to only have to manipulate?

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One player and then the rest

of them just fall in line.

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Hugh: Oh, from an advocate's

point of view, I mean, it was

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always so critical for my clients.

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I, I would send them to a different

custodial evaluator who did mostly

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forensic work to prepare for a

meeting with the custodial evaluator

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because that person will print out a

report and so much of it is computer

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generated for most of those reports,

but it looks like they have spent.

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You know, 50, a hundred hours writing it.

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And some of them then they do, some of

them, there are so many psychological

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records and so many interviews.,

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I've had cases where there's been hundreds

of hours of, of interviews with people

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and things like that, the huge cases.

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But for the most part, the court

looks at them as an expert.

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They have , the letters

behind their names.

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And so what I always told my

client is whatever they decided is.

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Highly likely, 90 plus percent

of the time, well over 90% of the

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time, FOC is gonna fall in line.

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The GAL is gonna go along with it and

the judge is gonna go all along with it.

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Mm-hmm.

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So, you know, as attorneys, we fight

for our client's point of view.

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There are times that we

know our clients are lying.

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And generally you can't continue to

represent, you certainly can't put

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forth anything that you know isn't true.

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But from an attorney's point of

view, you're hearing one side of

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the story and you sort of know that.

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So you're.

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You're, you're trying to tell

that side of the story and make

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it com as compelling as possible.

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And I always told my clients, you've,

you've got to convince this person.

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Mm-hmm.

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Other people will rely on it.

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Christine: Yeah.

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And to break that down a little bit,

that's the importance of hiring an

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attorney and utilizing strategy.

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So whenever we say the word forensic,

essentially we just mean for court.

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I mean, in a forensic evaluator,

like a forensic psychologist is

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just like a court psychologist.

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Like Yes.

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But what he did, and what I try

to tell people all the time is

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you have to understand the game

that you are participating in.

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And family court is extremely strategic.

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So he is prepping his client

for what the custodial evaluator

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is gonna look like by sending.

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His client to somebody

that's gonna prepare.

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Right?

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Hugh: Sure.

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Christine: And so that's like one avenue.

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So many people get into family court and

by the time they realize what's happening,

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especially if they're pro se Oh, it's

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Hugh: way too late.

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Christine: Way too late.

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Hugh: Way too late.

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Mm-hmm.

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Especially with the custodial evaluators.

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I, I'd like, you know, on, on my

personal podcast, I'm gonna do a, a

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series about that because it's such

an important piece of the family

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court system that exists right now.

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It's a broken piece, but it's.

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For people to understand how that system

works, but the entire system reinforces

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itself, as you said, bolsters itself.

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Yep.

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So if I am an FOC, someone that is

tasked by the court appointed to make a

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report over some factual circumstance,

you know, investigate this, make

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a report to the court, and I have

hundreds of cases and I'm overworked.

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The easiest thing to do would

be to go along with what the

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custodial evaluator says because

it's going to look reasonable.

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Mm-hmm.

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It's going to look, if you

disagree, then you might get

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questioned about why you disagreed.

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You, you know, you're gonna have

to work much, much harder to be

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able to back up your opinion.

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If you disagree with something in

a custodial evaluator report, and

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if you're overworked and you're

getting your appointments from that

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court, you don't want that to happen.

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You don't wanna be embarrassed.

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You don't want someone

picking apart your opinion.

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Path of least resistance is to go along

with a custodial evaluation report.

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Same thing with a judge.

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If I'm a judge and I have thousands and

thousands of cases, and a case is coming

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before me, and I have to determine you

know, with a preponderance of evidence

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what the facts are in this case, going

through someone who is, has much more

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time in the case than I would ever

have as a, be able to have as a judge.

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I can see them looking and say,

well, if I rely on this custodial

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evaluation right or wrong, I'm employed.

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I'm less likely to get appealed

overturned on appeal because it's,

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that's a big piece of evidence.

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Christine: Well, I also think too,

it's not just to get an appeal.

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I think the system is designed to

insulate itself from liability.

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So let's say, God forbid, something

were to happen to a child which

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we all know is a possibility.

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It happens in this country and , the

numbers, since family court has.

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Existed.

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The numbers of violence against

children have only increased,

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which I think is something to look

at when you talk about the data.

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But they know that if a custodial

evaluator comes back and says, this

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child should be with Dad, if they were

to go against the custodial evaluator.

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And something happens, then the

news is gonna run with it for days.

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If they follow the custodial evaluator

and something happens, the judge can say,

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well, listen, I relied on this expert Yep.

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With 17 letters behind their name.

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So the system is designed to protect

the judges from liability and judges

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are so, the only thing they want to

do, a lot of judges wanna do, in my

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opinion, is to protect their power,

protect them, as you know, so they have

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the ability to continue to be judge.

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Hugh: I don't, I think

it's a huge generalization.

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I think as a judge.

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You have a giant mountain of work

all the time, it's never gonna stop.

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You're never gonna be caught up.

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That's accepted.

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And even if you're coming to work and

you're staying late, there's always

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more stuff coming through our courts.

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They're just, the system is set up to

develop habits on relying on people

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who then realize that you're not gonna

get, they're not gonna get challenged.

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So they can, they can form their

own biases and opinions and look at

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every single case the same way and

run it through like it's a factory.

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And no one's probably going

to read the full report.

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:

They're gonna look for the

last page for the conclusion.

388

:

And you know, the whole system just,

389

:

Christine: yeah, I understand what

you're saying, but imagine if you

390

:

were an engineer at Ford and you

were just like, well, I didn't have

391

:

time to look at the full report.

392

:

That kind of stuff.

393

:

Oh, I agree.

394

:

Is just not accepted

in the private sector.

395

:

It's unacceptable behavior.

396

:

Oh, I,

397

:

Hugh: I'm not defending it.

398

:

I'm simply saying that I don't

know that there's this, everybody's

399

:

sitting there thinking, well, I'm

gonna do this so I can stay in power.

400

:

I, I think it's just the way that

it's set up reinforces those efficient

401

:

quote unquote efficiencies and.

402

:

Shortcuts.

403

:

Christine: Well, they all seem to run

for reelection, you know, and we got,

404

:

there's a couple Louisville attorneys

that have been supportive on Facebook

405

:

of the judges, obviously, in my opinion.

406

:

I said obviously, but to just

gain favor with the judges.

407

:

Hugh: Well, but I mean, and also

it's a huge generalization we've

408

:

said on a previous podcast.

409

:

I, I can think of examples right

now of times where judges that

410

:

I practice in front of a lot in

Jefferson County would completely.

411

:

End up marginalizing an FOC

when the FOC got called out

412

:

for getting some things wrong.

413

:

No.

414

:

Yeah.

415

:

And then all they, they

didn't rely on them.

416

:

Yeah.

417

:

They used their independent judgment.

418

:

I also know,

419

:

Christine: have you seen it happen

with a custodial evaluator though?

420

:

Hugh: Yes.

421

:

But not in j Well,

422

:

Christine: right.

423

:

I didn't see

424

:

Hugh: in Jefferson County,

I saw in Oldham County.

425

:

I've seen a custodial evaluator

come out very strongly on one side.

426

:

And the facts were just incorrect in the

evaluation, it took a, it took two full

427

:

days of, of hearing, well, maybe two long

half days of hearings, but completely

428

:

ruled against the recommendations

of the custodial evaluation because.

429

:

And I think that's the judge thought very

critically and looked at the evidence.

430

:

Christine: No, and I think

that's absolutely great.

431

:

But in 20 years of practice, you never

saw a judge go against a custodial

432

:

evaluator, statistically speaking.

433

:

Yeah.

434

:

In Jefferson County.

435

:

Yes.

436

:

Statistically speaking.

437

:

Just think about that.

438

:

Hugh: Well, and, and one of the

more concerning things it were

439

:

where you felt like it was.

440

:

A system mm-hmm.

441

:

Was when you would bring in someone

to point out the glaring holes

442

:

in a custodial evaluation report.

443

:

Mm-hmm.

444

:

To where for instance, in these custodial

evaluation reports, oftentimes they

445

:

will do certain personality tests.

446

:

They will look for personality

traits in the parties , to look

447

:

at their ability to co-parent.

448

:

Yeah.

449

:

And.

450

:

Oftentimes they're shortcut or they use

something that should, you can't rely on

451

:

this test to basically make a diagnosis

for this, and you'll bring someone in

452

:

to say, this is completely wrong, that

you could not have determined this based

453

:

on the limited testing that's done.

454

:

But I, I don't know that I ever saw,

at least in Jefferson County, an

455

:

evaluator or someone very credentialed

come into critique an evaluator

456

:

and it make any headway whatsoever.

457

:

Right?

458

:

Against the entrenched

evaluators that are relied on.

459

:

Here.

460

:

Yep.

461

:

Christine: And they're also

donating to judicial campaigns.

462

:

They're allowed to do that.

463

:

We know for a fact that Katherine

Berla donated to Laura Russell's

464

:

most recent campaign that's on

KREF that is on my link tree.

465

:

You can look and you

should be looking when you.

466

:

Go in front of a judge, you

should absolutely be looking

467

:

to see which a judge's, I mean,

which attorneys have donated.

468

:

There's

469

:

Hugh: a, there's a

reason why that's public.

470

:

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

471

:

No one uses it, but you should.

472

:

Christine: Yes.

473

:

And I think that's just

knowledge is power.

474

:

Now I'm a proponent that

that should not be allowed.

475

:

And I think actually like attorneys

are allowed to donate to judicial

476

:

campaigns and I've done it.

477

:

Y'all, me too.

478

:

I mean, I've done it.

479

:

It's wrong.

480

:

I've worked on

481

:

Hugh: judicial campaigns.

482

:

Yeah.

483

:

Christine: I regret it.

484

:

While I was practicing in front of them.

485

:

I wouldn't do it again.

486

:

I think we need to change the rules.

487

:

But now attorneys are even different

than these evaluators because these

488

:

evaluators are expert witnesses, and

so that is a witness that is coming

489

:

to testify before the court donating.

490

:

That's a bigger problem, in my opinion.

491

:

Well, both problematic.

492

:

Hugh: I mean, think about it.

493

:

I mean, the general public can

donate to, are you disqualified

494

:

if you have someone, yeah.

495

:

Who's donated to your campaign?

496

:

Oh, I think absolutely.

497

:

That's sitting in front of you,

498

:

Christine: I think.

499

:

Absolutely.

500

:

But

501

:

Hugh: does anyone ever look.

502

:

Christine: I mean, I don't know.

503

:

And I think absolutely that should happen.

504

:

And again, just call to

action to the general public.

505

:

I'm gonna tell you, I'm taking meetings

all the time with local leaders

506

:

and people that are in politics.

507

:

And that have tried to do advocacy work

for bringing awareness to the judiciary.

508

:

They really do think, the general

consensus from people I've spoken to

509

:

is that they think that the public

is dumb and that the public won't pay

510

:

attention to anything that happens with

judges and that judges the incumbents

511

:

will continue to run the show.

512

:

Hugh: Well, that's politics in general.

513

:

I don't think that applies just to judges.

514

:

I think.

515

:

That's most politicians.

516

:

Well, it's

517

:

Christine: nonpartisan.

518

:

Oh, sure.

519

:

And so I think though, this

is the feedback that I'm

520

:

getting from the community.

521

:

Like for example, no, I'm not kidding.

522

:

If Craig Greenberg were to dance at

a Christmas party with Mayor Craig

523

:

Greenberg dropping it low bend over.

524

:

To sexy red.

525

:

That would be a bigger

problem in the community.

526

:

It would be because people know

527

:

Hugh: who he is.

528

:

Christine: Yeah.

529

:

I mean, but we, how many?

530

:

How many?

531

:

Hugh: If you've just stopped person

on the street, we might want to

532

:

do that and ask to name a judge.

533

:

Christine: Yeah.

534

:

Hugh: In Jefferson County

if they can name one.

535

:

It's just, there's less interest in it

if you don't know who the people are.

536

:

Christine: I think though that's a myth.

537

:

Like I think there's a myth or that's

been perpetuated that people don't care.

538

:

You know, I could talk to , a wall,

right when I'm in the community.

539

:

Mm-hmm.

540

:

I literally, every time I go get

gas, I like show people the TikTok

541

:

judge pictures like of her wearing

the marijuana earrings or just like.

542

:

Doing makeup and they'll be like,

oh my gosh, my sister got a divorce.

543

:

Oh my, I've been at the hair salon.

544

:

And they'll be like, oh my God.

545

:

That was my husband's

546

:

Hugh: judge.

547

:

Yeah.

548

:

As soon as, as soon as

I said no, no one knows.

549

:

Once people have touched the court

system, they don't forget and they

550

:

remember everybody that was involved.

551

:

'cause it's a traumatic

experience, so I, yeah.

552

:

Christine: Yeah.

553

:

And I just want the public to

know you guys are in power.

554

:

Like follow email, your legislatures.

555

:

If we could get a task force.

556

:

Gather to just talk about what's

happening in the judiciary, expose

557

:

all the great judges talk about all

the great things that the judiciary

558

:

is happening in places in Kentucky.

559

:

That way the general public

will be more informed.

560

:

I would love to see that.

561

:

Hugh: Oh, I would, I would too.

562

:

Yeah.

563

:

, Which we did we made some clips

about some accolades for certain

564

:

judges, and you mentioned that they.

565

:

They don't get much traction.

566

:

It's

567

:

Christine: not performing very well, but

it is on TikTok, so you have to listen.

568

:

It's just bizarre what

the algorithm picks up.

569

:

Hugh: I think people negative works and

that's too bad and we gotta, we have

570

:

to figure out a way to navigate that.

571

:

Yeah.

572

:

Christine: I think I should give a

shout out to two judges right now.

573

:

We talked two episodes ago about the

district court debacle in:

574

:

About how the judges were trying to waive

the 10 day rule and 10 day rule mm-hmm.

575

:

As people in custody that

need a preliminary hearing.

576

:

There were two district court

judges at the time that are

577

:

currently still on the bench.

578

:

One is in district, one is in circuit.

579

:

Stephanie Burke and Julie Kalen,

both adamantly said on the record

580

:

and to the to the chief judge at

the time of district court and to

581

:

the, we will keep our docket open.

582

:

We are not gonna, we will

not waive this 10 day rule.

583

:

And I regret that I didn't mention that.

584

:

And just because we say good things

about judges doesn't mean we necessarily

585

:

agree with everything they do.

586

:

We aren't avatars.

587

:

Right.

588

:

I don't expect anyone to

agree with everything I say.

589

:

That would be boring, but yes, I think

a shout out to, I don't yeah, no.

590

:

Shout out Judge Julie Kalen and

Judge Stephanie Burke for standing

591

:

up in district court at the time.

592

:

Hugh: And one of the other things

I've noticed is when we're doing

593

:

the roll calls, there are definitely

trends with who's there and who's not.

594

:

There are certain people that are

almost always there, and I think at

595

:

some point we will go through that.

596

:

Mm-hmm.

597

:

We, we haven't.

598

:

Done that yet.

599

:

We've just talked about the numbers,

but there are definitely people that I

600

:

think have been there every single time.

601

:

Yep.

602

:

No matter what time we've been there,

their courtroom always seems to be open.

603

:

They always seem to be there.

604

:

Christine: Yeah.

605

:

And I think that like a one off,

like I, nine of 13 judges, again, , I

606

:

struggle a little bit with the morning,

it being the morning like 10 45.

607

:

To about 11, 10, 11 15.

608

:

We didn't keep as good of track as

when we left, we were chatting up.

609

:

But that is a time when really it should

be, you know, a hustle and bustle.

610

:

But nine outta 13 isn't terrible.

611

:

I mean, it is still the summer, you know,

people might be getting a last minute

612

:

vacation or something like , that end.

613

:

But again, make your calendar public.

614

:

Like one big question I get, how much

vacation time do judges get, Hugh?

615

:

Hugh: I do not know.

616

:

Christine: Is it?

617

:

Is it statutory?

618

:

Hugh: There's an answer to that.

619

:

That's all public.

620

:

It's not

621

:

Christine: statutory.

622

:

Hugh: It's not statutory.

623

:

Christine: Mm-hmm.

624

:

They can have as much as they want.

625

:

It's the honor system.

626

:

Yep.

627

:

Look at his face.

628

:

Hugh: You're shitting me.

629

:

Christine: Yeah.

630

:

No, they take up as much time.

631

:

Really?

632

:

Yeah.

633

:

There is no obligation to work 40 hours.

634

:

There's no obligation.

635

:

To clock in, there's no, I mean, now they,

they do have to, to get in the building.

636

:

It's my understanding that they have

to scan into like secure parking.

637

:

Sure.

638

:

But that's not public record.

639

:

Hugh: Wouldn't even be tracked then.

640

:

Other than the scanning in,

641

:

Christine: scanning in and scanning

out, which, I mean, I think that

642

:

information should be public.

643

:

I don't wanna know what kind of car

they're driving or anything like that.

644

:

Like, I'm not saying anything

crazy like that, but just like,

645

:

when are you in the building?

646

:

When are you not in the building?

647

:

Yeah.

648

:

I mean that actually is the big, there's

a litigation going on at the mayor's

649

:

office right now here in Louisville.

650

:

And that's one of the

claims they fired someone.

651

:

It's a long story.

652

:

We don't need to get

into the specifics of it.

653

:

I've talked about it on my, at Kentucky,

Christine, but they were saying that this.

654

:

Employee wasn't scanning in and scanning

out and now she's claiming that she

655

:

had the privilege of working from home.

656

:

But it's very interesting.

657

:

I'm gonna tell you something right now.

658

:

Judges, you can't work from home.

659

:

Nope.

660

:

You lost that privilege.

661

:

Hugh: Oh, I haven't seen

it work since COVID.

662

:

I did have some hearings where

judges presided from their kitchen.

663

:

That worked absolutely perfectly, and it

was because we needed to go in front of a.

664

:

It needed to get resolved.

665

:

Mm-hmm.

666

:

And there was no other way to do it.

667

:

And people just made do, I've had

a, a judge in a spare bedroom.

668

:

I've had a judge in a kitchen, I think

two judges in, in, in their kitchens

669

:

conduct hearings and knocked it outta the

park, like recorded it correctly on Zoom.

670

:

The record was made.

671

:

It was, it went very well.

672

:

So I'm not saying that there are

technical limitations to it, but yeah,

673

:

Christine: no.

674

:

You lost your privilege.

675

:

TikTok, judge you, you

ruined it for everybody.

676

:

I think now we know for sure

what y'all have been doing

677

:

because of some of her TikTok.

678

:

Hugh: Well, it's funny.

679

:

I think if I recall, she was one

of the ones that conducted one

680

:

of the hearings that we had to

get done and conducted it from.

681

:

I mean, she was remote somewhere.

682

:

I don't remember exactly where it was,

and she had a background on and you just.

683

:

At the time, , everything

was done remotely.

684

:

Yeah.

685

:

And, and so I, I had a, I always,

if I had a trial that was remote, I

686

:

would set up in a conference room.

687

:

I would set up boxes and

put the laptop on it.

688

:

'cause I tend to stand and pace

when I'm talking and thinking.

689

:

So I was standing there and I just,

in my head, I was in a courtroom.

690

:

It really worked.

691

:

And, and the hearing went well.

692

:

And, and the staff was

also on the meeting.

693

:

I know it technically can be done.

694

:

Christine: Yeah.

695

:

The TikTok judge had a background

that looked like the courthouse.

696

:

Hugh: Yeah.

697

:

Christine: And she actually, it's my

understanding that she's got a studio.

698

:

'cause obviously she's a makeup

artist part-time, and she does

699

:

makeup videos and you have to

have lighting for those things.

700

:

So I think it was

happening in the same room.

701

:

But she actually did a TikTok, and I

think this is, she gotten a little bit

702

:

of heat from this, where she had that

background put up the judge background,

703

:

like the courthouse background.

704

:

And she said, just because I

haven't been in court doesn't

705

:

mean I haven't been judging.

706

:

Hugh: Oh, that's interesting.

707

:

Christine: You can't make it up.

708

:

Hugh: Oh, wow.

709

:

Christine: It's like, bless her heart.

710

:

You know what I'm saying?

711

:

Hugh: Well, all I can say is

it worked in that circumstance.

712

:

Yes.

713

:

And it was greatly appreciated by

the, the clients who had a business

714

:

that was failing and needed to be.

715

:

Divided.

716

:

And, and, and if we had had to wait

six more months on that case, the

717

:

parties would've lost everything.

718

:

Christine: So, but well, the height

of the pandemic is a different Yeah.

719

:

That was the height of the pandemic.

720

:

I think it's just bizarre sometimes

that we're like, clap, clap, clap, clap.

721

:

You did your job.

722

:

You know what I mean?

723

:

Like,

724

:

Hugh: well, that's, that,

that's how I felt today.

725

:

I was like, wow, there's like half

of half the family courts are open.

726

:

Mm-hmm.

727

:

And I, I just thought, oh, that's great.

728

:

And then, yeah.

729

:

Why is that great?

730

:

Why, why should my expectations be

that low And, and I am from a private

731

:

employer point of view, I think

everybody should have honor system

732

:

and you should have a team that you

trust to take time off when they need.

733

:

I was always a proponent

of never saying no.

734

:

If you have the right people,

the job will get done.

735

:

It's very different when taxpayer

money and a public service is involved.

736

:

Christine: Absolutely.

737

:

All right, y'all ready?

738

:

Speaking of these judges, let's

watch the clip of the week.

739

:

This was chosen by Hugh, not me.

740

:

And this is from the creator.

741

:

What's the creator's name?

742

:

This is user 5 0 8 1 9 5 2.

743

:

8, 3, 6, 5, 8.

744

:

Pressure to plead guilty, furious

judge over potential appeal.

745

:

Hugh: Yeah.

746

:

Strange one for me to pick,

given that this is criminal

747

:

court and not family, but yeah,

748

:

Christine: so my money's on

that being a public defender.

749

:

Hugh: Oh wow.

750

:

Oh, wow.

751

:

He's gonna leave.

752

:

He's gonna leave.

753

:

What?

754

:

What does that mean?

755

:

The judge is going to leave,

756

:

Christine: means he is gonna go

into chambers and Take a minute.

757

:

Mommy needs a minute.

758

:

Daddy needs a minute.

759

:

Hugh: Wow.

760

:

I mean, there's, there's so much there.

761

:

So.

762

:

According to this judge,

you can't plead guilty.

763

:

You can't take a plea deal to avoid a

trial unless you're actually 100% guilty

764

:

and did everything you were charged with.

765

:

I mean, losing his mind because

the guy said he didn't do

766

:

it, but he's pleading guilty.

767

:

Christine: Yeah.

768

:

And I don't know if he's in a state

where we, they have an Alford plea.

769

:

This is a felony.

770

:

I would be willing to bet it's a felony,

because typically with misdemeanors

771

:

you plea and are sentence same day.

772

:

So felonies you plea, and then

typically sentenced within.

773

:

In Kentucky, it's almost

always a month later in most

774

:

jurisdictions that I've practiced.

775

:

And that's because you have

to get time to have the PSI

776

:

pre-sentence investigation done.

777

:

An Alfred plea is where you admit

sufficient evidence to find you

778

:

guilty, but you do not admit guilt.

779

:

Correct.

780

:

It has no real effect

781

:

Hugh: because you still,

it's still a guilty

782

:

Christine: Yes.

783

:

But you can still claim

innocence publicly.

784

:

Mm-hmm.

785

:

That being said, it's, you know, this

one didn't make me as mad as it made you.

786

:

And all of them make me mad.

787

:

Hugh: It, it made me angry because how

many times have you heard a litigant

788

:

sit there and, and they're agreeing with

something, or they're going along with

789

:

something and they get pushed on it?

790

:

They say, well, no one's gonna

listen to me anyway, or I haven't

791

:

had a chance to speak, no one's

cared what I've said all along.

792

:

So yeah, I'm just going along with it

like that's, that happens so often.

793

:

Mm-hmm.

794

:

That people just do not

feel heard in the process.

795

:

Christine: Yeah.

796

:

Hugh: And they taking advice of

counsel and this judge seemed to just.

797

:

It was insinuating that this was a

setup so that he could claim ineffective

798

:

assistance of counsel, which means

you say your attorney didn't do a

799

:

good enough job and you didn't get

your constitutionally guaranteed

800

:

representation on a criminal action.

801

:

And then it gives you a right to appeal.

802

:

Christine: Yeah.

803

:

It goes to your sixth amendment Right.

804

:

To counsel.

805

:

Mm-hmm.

806

:

And effective assistance of counsel.

807

:

Hugh: Yep.

808

:

Christine: That being said, when you

plead a felonies everywhere in this.

809

:

Country, my understanding is that

there's gonna be a colloquy done, you

810

:

know, where do you understand your name?

811

:

Sure.

812

:

Do you understand your name?

813

:

LOL.

814

:

Do you understand your charge?

815

:

Is this your name?

816

:

Are you pleading free will?

817

:

Yep.

818

:

And so, and the reason that we do

that is so when there is sentencing,

819

:

you have a fair and adequate plea the

judge had two options in that case.

820

:

And I do think if.

821

:

He's, the judge is clearly frustrated.

822

:

The way judges speak to people is insane.

823

:

Okay.

824

:

That's like not appropriate, obviously,

but the judge should just say,

825

:

set it aside and we're gonna have

set it for a jury trial or a bench

826

:

trial if you wanted, which again.

827

:

I can think of maybe two circumstances

where you would ever want a bench trial on

828

:

a circuit, court matter, criminal matter.

829

:

But, or the judge just

says, no, we had a colloquy.

830

:

I'm sentencing you today.

831

:

Sure.

832

:

And then you can take it up in a, you

know, just because people allege there's

833

:

violations of their due process, they're

ineffective assistance of counsel appeal.

834

:

The judge should, that's their right.

835

:

That shouldn't piss the judge off.

836

:

Just let it happen.

837

:

Hugh: No, it is their right.

838

:

Andy, if you think that.

839

:

The defendant doesn't understand

what they're doing or got bad advice.

840

:

It is very easy to say, I,

there are irregularities here.

841

:

I'm not comfortable taking this plea.

842

:

Mm-hmm.

843

:

We're gonna set this for another pretrial

conference or some other conference.

844

:

I want you to go speak to your counsel.

845

:

Christine: Yep.

846

:

Hugh: Or, you know, I wanna see, you

know, counsel in chambers and discuss

847

:

about, you know, something there.

848

:

There are ways to handle

if you have concerns.

849

:

This didn't seem like a

concern for a defendant.

850

:

Mm-hmm.

851

:

This seemed like a frustrated judge.

852

:

Yep.

853

:

Who was just.

854

:

Having a tantrum on the bench.

855

:

Christine: Yep.

856

:

And I think the ramification for a lot

of these videos that we watch would be

857

:

to make a complaint against the judge.

858

:

And in Kentucky we have the Judicial

Conduct Commission, which is governed

859

:

by the Supreme Court of Kentucky.

860

:

So it's an internal body.

861

:

Right.

862

:

And you don't see much come out of

the Judicial Conduct Commission.

863

:

Have you ever looked at the

form to file a complaint?

864

:

Hugh: Yes.

865

:

Christine: And it's like, first off.

866

:

Judicial conduct commission.

867

:

You can Google it in Kentucky.

868

:

They don't even have the ability for

you to do fill the form out online.

869

:

You have to print,

write, and then send it.

870

:

Hugh: They make it difficult.

871

:

Yep.

872

:

And there are a lot of things antiquated

about our government forms, government

873

:

websites, and especially within the

legal and court system, but not that

874

:

antiquated, that, that just, it's hard for

me to believe that that's anything but.

875

:

Intentional.

876

:

Christine: Yeah.

877

:

And I even emailed them about that.

878

:

I filed a complaint about the TikTok

judge, which I've spoken openly about, and

879

:

I remember it being a huge pain for me.

880

:

Like even the way the form was.

881

:

Mm-hmm.

882

:

Like it was just like, and I

emailed them, like, y'all, if I'm

883

:

struggling with this, like, can

you imagine pro se litigants like.

884

:

Clearly, if you want transparency

and accountability, you know,

885

:

judges need to be held accountable.

886

:

But when you have internal investigations

that are confidential secret and

887

:

then the outcome is typically secret.

888

:

Mm-hmm.

889

:

You know, what do you think about it?

890

:

Hugh: Well, I, I think if I, if I know

it's very hard for anyone to file a

891

:

complaint, and I know it, that it's

very unlikely that anything comes of it.

892

:

If they do.

893

:

And then I also know if something does

come of it, it's most likely gonna be

894

:

something private and is talked about

and the public's never going to know

895

:

about it, and it's not gonna affect my

ability to keep my job or to be reelected.

896

:

Christine: Yep.

897

:

Hugh: That's going to, that's

gonna inform how I behave and how I

898

:

speak to people in my courtroom and

899

:

Christine: mm-hmm.

900

:

Hugh: And whether I follow the rules.

901

:

Christine: Absolutely.

902

:

And I just think that if there were

more, if there was more oversight and

903

:

more accountability that would nip

some of these problems in the bud.

904

:

Hugh: Sure.

905

:

And, and I imagine there would be tons of

people that don't like rulings and they'll

906

:

file complaints that's going to happen.

907

:

And there will be 99% of

it'll be complete and total.

908

:

Bs.

909

:

You know, people that are just

angry and, you know, judges

910

:

make people mad all the time.

911

:

Most people in the court systems

make people mad all the time.

912

:

, I've had sheriffs insist on walking

me back to my office because I made

913

:

people so mad in the courtroom.

914

:

I, I understand that, but there

are ways to deal with that.

915

:

It's the same thing with, with,

any feedback form for any industry?

916

:

Christine: Yeah, I just really struggle.

917

:

I think that's a talking

point to some degree.

918

:

So I was in the public defender's office

for four years, never had a bar complaint.

919

:

Four years, thousands of clients.

920

:

My office, we had, my goodness, I wanna

say between, between 10 and 12 in my

921

:

actual office, we were in two circuits.

922

:

The other circuit we really didn't see

much like it was in the county, so we

923

:

weren't even at the office that much.

924

:

But I'm trying to think in my four

years there, how many bar complaints

925

:

were even filed by anyone against

any public defender in the office.

926

:

But

927

:

Hugh: that's different.

928

:

That's how Oh, it's very different because

you're number one you're representing

929

:

a defendant against the state.

930

:

You don't have someone.

931

:

Witness on the state who's gonna

file bar complaints against you?

932

:

I'm talking about No,

933

:

Christine: our clients.

934

:

Our clients I

935

:

Hugh: know, but I'm not talking about

when I said people are not happy

936

:

with the attorneys I'm talking about.

937

:

So when running a business, you have to

really pay attention to online reputation

938

:

and Google reviews and things like that.

939

:

And then review sites, especially

Google says if you have had an

940

:

experience with this person, you

can write a review whether or not

941

:

you actually did business with them.

942

:

So.

943

:

How, okay, I forget what

percentage of the bad reviews

944

:

that we ever got from the firm.

945

:

A very high percent were for people

on the other side who were not happy

946

:

that they got a bad result because

we represented their spouse and

947

:

that still was a legitimate review.

948

:

It's the same thing.

949

:

Christine: Okay.

950

:

Back up.

951

:

No, but back up.

952

:

You don't get

953

:

Hugh: that in in, you're

not gonna get that in

954

:

Christine: in four years

as a public defender.

955

:

People in go to prison, lots

of people go to jail in prison.

956

:

I never had one of them that I can

think of ever file a complaint on any

957

:

of the judges in those two circuits.

958

:

Hugh: Hmm.

959

:

Christine: So that, that I'm aware of.

960

:

And so that, think about it like that.

961

:

Hugh: How often was it in those cases

where the judge made the ultimate decision

962

:

on whether to convict them or not?

963

:

Christine: Sentenced them or

made suppression sentence is

964

:

Hugh: different, but determining

whether they were guilty or not.

965

:

They,

966

:

Christine: we didn't have a family

court, so we had those circuit judges

967

:

were doing family court matters as well.

968

:

I mean, I never once heard of it.

969

:

Literally, the judge used to

practice in front of Beth Maze.

970

:

Her husband has been to prison twice.

971

:

Once for trafficking, heroin,

and once for vote buying.

972

:

And she was charged with forgery

for entering an order in his case.

973

:

And I never heard of a, judicial complaint

filed against her while I was practicing.

974

:

Now, obviously for the order it was

filed and there was a full hearing.

975

:

We can break that down on another

one, but I just don't think that

976

:

people, I don't think that we should

have this fear that everyone's

977

:

gonna complain against their judge.

978

:

They have so much power that people

are afraid to complain against him.

979

:

Hugh: No, that's true.

980

:

Christine: You know, I mean, I'm

just saying like, I don't know of

981

:

any client I had in private practice

that filed a judicial complaint.

982

:

Do you?

983

:

Did you?

984

:

Or you can't say,

985

:

Hugh: oh, I, I know, I know.

986

:

Several.

987

:

Really?

988

:

Oh, yes.

989

:

Christine: Can I see 'em?

990

:

Hugh: No.

991

:

Christine: Why can't I see 'em?

992

:

Hugh: Well, we, we actually, we had

clients who insisted on doing it,

993

:

and we would advise them against it.

994

:

Because how is that going

to help your cause at all?

995

:

Filing what he said?

996

:

Filing from, from an

advocate point of view, yeah.

997

:

I was, from a, a human point of view and

looking at it from the outside, it needed

998

:

to be done, but I always urged them to

do it after, after the case was resolved.

999

:

Yep.

:

00:39:12,455 --> 00:39:15,845

Regardless of how it came out, if there

was something worth filing a complaint

:

00:39:15,845 --> 00:39:19,235

about, but we had clients that went

ahead and did it anyway and we had to

:

00:39:19,235 --> 00:39:23,915

do some damage control within the case

because they, things would get mentioned.

:

00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:24,180

Christine: Yeah.

:

00:39:24,180 --> 00:39:27,485

Hugh: Things they would, it would get,

you know, things like that get mentioned.

:

00:39:27,485 --> 00:39:30,125

They get mentioned in little

comments at motion hour or in

:

00:39:30,125 --> 00:39:31,745

chambers and it's, they just,

:

00:39:32,315 --> 00:39:34,356

Christine: or the little rumor

mill, like, oh, the little rumor.

:

00:39:35,465 --> 00:39:39,245

Hugh: Mentioned by the judge in

comments speaking with you, that

:

00:39:39,245 --> 00:39:40,385

someone has filed a complaint.

:

00:39:40,385 --> 00:39:44,555

The, you know, it's obviously coming

into the process, which is why I

:

00:39:44,555 --> 00:39:48,785

always told clients, you know, almost

nothing good is going to come outta

:

00:39:48,785 --> 00:39:50,555

that from your case standpoint.

:

00:39:50,615 --> 00:39:53,795

Well, and if you go and file complaints

against anyone, and that includes, you

:

00:39:53,825 --> 00:39:57,755

know, threatening a bar complaint against

the other side or the other attorney or

:

00:39:57,755 --> 00:40:00,095

call, I mean, those kind of things just.

:

00:40:00,815 --> 00:40:01,985

Christine: Strategically bad

:

00:40:01,985 --> 00:40:02,315

Hugh: strategy.

:

00:40:02,345 --> 00:40:02,555

It's

:

00:40:02,555 --> 00:40:03,365

Christine: bad strategy.

:

00:40:03,365 --> 00:40:05,585

Also, we know that nothing comes of it.

:

00:40:05,585 --> 00:40:10,805

And personally, there were times that I

would have liked to have filed a judicial

:

00:40:10,805 --> 00:40:16,325

complaint, but I didn't because ultimately

I still think our duties to our client

:

00:40:16,355 --> 00:40:20,240

and you know, I think that could have

made it more difficult for the client.

:

00:40:20,375 --> 00:40:23,315

It's an interesting ethical

issue as far as like having to.

:

00:40:23,690 --> 00:40:26,720

Tell on someone when we see bad

behavior, but I think ultimately

:

00:40:26,720 --> 00:40:28,190

always our duty is to our client.

:

00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:28,760

Hugh: I agree.

:

00:40:28,850 --> 00:40:31,700

Christine: Like there was one time I did

not file a judicial complaint because my

:

00:40:31,700 --> 00:40:36,020

client didn't want it to happen, was just

like, no, this judge is already terrible.

:

00:40:36,050 --> 00:40:36,860

You know what I mean?

:

00:40:36,865 --> 00:40:36,885

Yeah.

:

00:40:37,265 --> 00:40:38,270

Hugh: Oh yeah.

:

00:40:38,270 --> 00:40:40,580

I, I don't know that I've

ever recommended filing.

:

00:40:40,580 --> 00:40:43,790

I'm certain that in 20 years

I would, I wouldn't have

:

00:40:43,790 --> 00:40:45,590

recommended filing something.

:

00:40:46,490 --> 00:40:49,280

Against the, now there are

times where Recusals asking for

:

00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,160

recusals and, and things like

that, you have to recommend it.

:

00:40:52,310 --> 00:40:52,520

Christine: Yeah.

:

00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:53,055

Oh, 'cause that's,

:

00:40:53,060 --> 00:40:53,600

Hugh: that's your duty.

:

00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:59,050

But filing a judicial complaint, I've

had plenty of conversations with clients

:

00:40:59,050 --> 00:41:04,330

about that is clearly a violation of

the code and a complaint is warranted.

:

00:41:04,330 --> 00:41:05,110

But from.

:

00:41:06,355 --> 00:41:09,925

As an advocate on your case,

this is not the time to do it.

:

00:41:10,555 --> 00:41:10,645

Yep.

:

00:41:10,645 --> 00:41:11,065

That is not going to help.

:

00:41:11,305 --> 00:41:13,015

Christine: Which is what is so shocking.

:

00:41:13,015 --> 00:41:15,625

And that's another thing when I

asked him, can I see the complaint?

:

00:41:15,625 --> 00:41:19,945

And he's like, no, it's because I've

never shared my complaint that I wrote.

:

00:41:19,975 --> 00:41:22,615

I mean, I can share the fact that

I filed one that's different.

:

00:41:22,885 --> 00:41:25,585

Well, but the fact of the matter

that, or like the details in

:

00:41:25,585 --> 00:41:27,235

the case, you can't share that.

:

00:41:27,300 --> 00:41:29,700

It's, it's questionable as to

whether or not you can share it.

:

00:41:29,730 --> 00:41:32,790

Hugh: Well, from my point of view,

anything that involves any of my clients,

:

00:41:32,790 --> 00:41:37,440

I'm not going to speak specifically about

or, or I'm not gonna disclose anything.

:

00:41:37,500 --> 00:41:39,960

Even if they, they haven't

been my clients for years.

:

00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:41,210

I, you know, , without permission.

:

00:41:41,210 --> 00:41:42,830

So that was my initial reaction to it.

:

00:41:42,830 --> 00:41:43,130

They am that

:

00:41:43,130 --> 00:41:44,030

Christine: attorney-client privilege.

:

00:41:44,030 --> 00:41:44,120

Yeah.

:

00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:45,950

Well, I want the tea, I want the gossip.

:

00:41:46,010 --> 00:41:46,250

Hugh: Yeah.

:

00:41:47,090 --> 00:41:48,020

Christine: Oh my goodness.

:

00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,000

And if anyone out there has judicial

conduct complaints that they

:

00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:52,500

have filed, please share with me.

:

00:41:52,500 --> 00:41:53,790

I would love to see the contents.

:

00:41:54,030 --> 00:41:58,440

It's actually fascinating because

until about:

:

00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:00,360

verify that on the website.

:

00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:04,620

They actually used to track how many

were filed and what the outcomes of it

:

00:42:04,620 --> 00:42:08,550

were, whether or not it was a public or

private reprimand, and it was about 2%

:

00:42:08,550 --> 00:42:12,360

ended in a private or public reprimand,

which is an ex, it's, and again, it's

:

00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,930

very similar to the old school law

enforcement internal investigations.

:

00:42:16,255 --> 00:42:19,285

Statistically speaking, I

struggle with those numbers, but

:

00:42:19,285 --> 00:42:20,905

again, how can I say for sure?

:

00:42:20,905 --> 00:42:22,225

Because I've never seen

the contents of it.

:

00:42:22,375 --> 00:42:23,485

You're a hundred percent right.

:

00:42:23,605 --> 00:42:26,995

Somebody could be like that, son

of a bitch judge ruled against me.

:

00:42:27,025 --> 00:42:27,655

You know what I mean?

:

00:42:27,685 --> 00:42:29,695

And that's not a judicial complaint.

:

00:42:29,695 --> 00:42:29,755

No.

:

00:42:29,755 --> 00:42:30,715

Losing your case.

:

00:42:30,715 --> 00:42:33,715

Absolutely not being

incarcerated for a robbery one.

:

00:42:33,775 --> 00:42:35,545

You know, that's not a judicial complaint.

:

00:42:35,815 --> 00:42:39,235

So we, I can't say for certain

they could be doing a killer job.

:

00:42:39,415 --> 00:42:39,595

Yep.

:

00:42:40,165 --> 00:42:40,256

You know?

:

00:42:40,540 --> 00:42:40,720

Agreed.

:

00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:46,940

But y'all, anything that you

have, please send to judge-y.com.

:

00:42:47,230 --> 00:42:52,720

I am at kentuckychristine, on all

platforms Instagram, judging the judges.

:

00:42:52,750 --> 00:42:56,380

YouTube, please follow us, subscribe,

like, share all the things.

:

00:42:56,630 --> 00:42:57,465

We heart you.

:

00:42:58,125 --> 00:42:58,545

Hugh: See ya.

:

00:43:00,415 --> 00:43:00,895

/ Next call.

:

00:43:00,895 --> 00:43:03,100

We need some justice, justice, justice.

:

00:43:03,535 --> 00:43:04,915

And I wanna ring bells in public.

:

00:43:05,275 --> 00:43:07,645

I wanna ring bes in public nor crowd.

:

00:43:07,705 --> 00:43:09,540

Yeah, but I To the fo Yeah.

:

00:43:09,740 --> 00:43:11,300

I To the fo Yeah.

:

00:43:11,380 --> 00:43:15,020

I to the fo fo teaser.

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About the Podcast

The JudgeMental Podcast
From the Creators of Judge-y
The JudgeMental Podcast features two attorneys, Hugh and Christine, who bring over three decades of combined litigation experience to the mic. Now venturing into a bold new initiative—"Judge-y", a website and soon-to-be app—they aim to give lawyers and litigants a platform to evaluate judges and promote accountability within the judiciary.

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Hugh Barrow