Episode 11

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Published on:

14th Aug 2025

EP 11 Viral Judges

The Judgmental Podcast – Episode 11: Courtroom Chronicles & Viral Judges

Join hosts Hugh and Christine, the minds behind Judge-y, as they dive into a week of courtroom observations, candid critiques, and sharp insights into the world of judicial accountability.

In This Episode:

  • A breakdown of a viral judicial clip: Is courtroom advice performative or helpful?
  • Firsthand experiences from visiting five different family court divisions in Louisville.
  • Behind-the-scenes stories: From mistaken identities on Zoom to the realities of motion hour.
  • Standout moments: Judge Laura Russell’s impressive courtroom control and efficiency.
  • Systemic issues: Unprepared judges, missing case files, and the role of GALs and FOCs.
  • A complex custody case spanning multiple jurisdictions, and why it’s one to watch.
  • The importance of judicial transparency and the need for local media in courtrooms.

Key Takeaways:

  • Not all judges are created equal—preparation and professionalism make a difference.
  • The legal system’s quirks, from motion hour chaos to the hierarchy of attorneys and court staff.
  • Why public scrutiny and media presence matter for accountability.

Get Involved:

  • Have a story or want us to follow a particular case? Reach out at judgey.com.
  • Follow us on YouTube and Instagram: @judgingthejudges

Tune in for unfiltered legal commentary, real courtroom stories, and a call for justice—one division at a time.

Transcript
Speaker:

You are listening to

The Judgemental Podcast.

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We're Hugh and Christine, the Minds

Behind Judgy, the revolutionary app

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that empowers you to judge the judges.

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It's pastime for judicial accountability

and transparency within the courts.

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Prepare for sharp insights, candid

critiques, and unshakable honesty from

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two lawyers determined to save the system.

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We need some justice.

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Justice, my fine justice.

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And I wanna ring, be in public.

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I wanna ring, be in public crowd.

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Yeah.

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Christine: All right.

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Welcome to the Judgmental podcast.

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Today we are gonna give our opinions

and breakdowns of our investigation.

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That happened on Monday.

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We went to five different divisions.

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Obviously, we're gonna do the viral clip

and then we are gonna pick some stories

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to follow out of Louisville Family Corps.

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Let's get right into it.

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Y'all wanna watch the viral clip?

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Hugh: Alright.

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I've heard this speech before,

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Christine: right?

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I do.

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Hugh: Yeah, we do too.

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Christine: Oh my word.

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What do you think?

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Hugh: It's obnoxious.

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I

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I don't understand the, the life advice

that, that judges sometimes give.

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I mean.

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I, it's not violating anybody's rights.

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You're no.

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Speaking to someone who has

obviously been involved in a

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domestic dispute of some sort.

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Christine: It's very performative.

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Hugh: Yeah, it's performative.

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I agree.

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You're, you're, you know,

the camera is on there.

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You're trying to be funny for camera,

which , I think has, I think that's a

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whole different discussion that I have.

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I have more issues with.

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In this instance, I just

find it a little obnoxious.

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Christine: It's also like the thing

about what the victim of the domestic

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violence, and we can say victim

because clearly he's pled guilty.

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What would they think if

they're watching that?

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Like, oh, you destroyed the last

orchid, but the next orchid,

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if you just treat it right.

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You know what I mean?

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That's not really how

domestic violence works.

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Like if you're a per of domestic

violence, you're a perp of domestic

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violence unless you have therapy

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Hugh: for treatment.

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Well, regardless of that, if

I'm a victim and I'm watching

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that and you're just saying.

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Get an orchid.

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If you can do that, you can

have another relationship.

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LO.

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I don't know if that just seems to.

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Belittle what really

happened A little bit.

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Yeah.

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That's how I would take it if I were

the victim , in that circumstance,

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Christine: 100.

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And this is a judge outta Texas and

I've watched a lot of her stuff.

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And I just do think that a lot

of it like is time consuming.

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I don't really know that she, one, has the

training to be given this kind of advice,

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and two, that it's appropriate for a court

of law and to keep the docket backed up.

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But I think so many of these

judges just wanna be Judge Judy.

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Hugh: Now what training would be?

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Is it botany?

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Is that a Master gardener certificate?

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Christine: Yeah, I think she

just thinks this will go viral.

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Like I really think that she thinks

if she knows she's on recording, she

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knows that a lot of her videos get

released on TikTok and other avenues.

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I don't know if she's doing it.

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Her staff's doing it.

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Or if it's a, I would

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Hugh: really like to know that.

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Christine: Yeah, it could

be a local TV station.

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'cause we had judges that were

doing that here at one point,

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the child support docket.

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And so if like right now you

and I are speaking knowing

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we're being recorded, right?

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Sure.

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Like it certainly changes the dynamic.

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And I would never want the judge

to be doing that if the, it

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was my case before the court.

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Like they shouldn't be worried

about what an audience is gonna say.

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Hugh: I agree.

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I would find that to be problematic

if I were sitting before the court

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on even a minor traffic issue.

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Traffic issue if I knew that

there was something going

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on besides judging my case.

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Christine: And adjudicating

my case, I would

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Hugh: have an issue.

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I would have an issue with it.

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Christine: Yeah, and I think that

that's kind of the stuff like

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we talk about the TikTok judge.

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We're not gonna go into

her too much today.

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It's like too much clout for her anyway.

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But the notion that she's hearing pain

and thinking that that will be a viral

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moment, this judge here is trying

to create this viral life lesson.

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Like, oh, you know, just get an orchid

and I'm gonna be famous on TikTok.

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I would love to talk to some Harris County

attorneys to see how her docket runs,

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what the viewpoint is from constituents.

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And the viewpoint is from lawyers.

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So anyone in Harris County, Texas

shoot us a DM or comment on this video.

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Hugh: Yeah.

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I would imagine if this is

happening all the time, it

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slows the docket down somewhat.

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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And, and if you're gonna choose some

advice to give that you hope to go viral.

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Is it really gonna be

orchids and domestic violence

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Christine: and ice cubes?

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I mean, I think that's what they say.

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I put ice cubes in my

succulents, like, which is weird.

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I know an orchid's not a

succulent, blah, blah, blah.

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But I just think that was so bizarre.

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I think she was saying like, you can't,

I, you have to read the instructions.

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But you know, human relationships

don't come with instructions.

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Not to hit someone.

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Hugh: Yeah.

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Well,

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Christine: I don't know.

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Hugh: Yeah, don't punch your orchid.

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Christine: LOL.

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Anyway, well, we were down in

court yesterday, five divisions.

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Honestly, let's just start off by like,

I think we were both a little cranky,

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Hugh: Part there, there were

multiple reasons for my crankiness.

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One is, it was strange to be over there.

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It has not been, but just

a few months since I.

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Left the full-time practice.

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Mm-hmm.

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And first impression was, I forgot how,

how it smelled over there in court.

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That wasn't great.

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You were

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Christine: saying that.

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Hugh: Yeah.

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I, I just, it all came back to me.

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So , it was strange sitting

inside those courtrooms.

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It was yeah.

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Brought back a lot of

memories of sitting there.

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Long days of family practitioners.

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Generally, especially if your

office isn't downtown and you can't

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walk back to your office between

motion hour and get a break.

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Yeah.

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Division one starts at 9:00 AM

Division 10 starts at 10 30, so one

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30 I was, yeah, I said 10 30, 1 30 and

doesn't usually finish till 2, 2 30.

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Sometimes later, depending

on how big the docket is.

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And because people show up late.

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Yeah, the later you get in the

day, because the ones prior to

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that one have run over, so the

judge is constantly waiting on

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people, so it tends to run longer.

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So you're really over there all day.

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And if you don't have.

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Anything going on, or your case gets

called early in one and you don't have

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anything for two more motion hours.

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You're just really sitting down over

there, down there seeing people that,

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you know, listening to other cases.

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Mm-hmm.

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But just trying to find something to do

to pass the time or get a little work

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done from the back of the courtroom.

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Christine: Yeah.

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And there was just something about like,

when I was even getting ready to go to

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the courthouse, I had this like twinge of

anxiety that I haven't had in a minute.

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And you and I have been going down

to do these judicial roll calls.

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Mm-hmm.

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And like I didn't really have that.

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It was weird.

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So when I was driving down, I got a

text message from an attorney , and I

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talked to tons of attorneys, but it was

like, I love it when you come to court.

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And I'm like, what?

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I'm in my car.

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And there was someone that was utilizing

my name in division six and for listeners.

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There are 10 divisions.

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We decided to hit five this week.

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We're not gonna spill when

we're gonna hit other ones, but

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we can't do all 10 in a day.

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It's too much.

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No, it's too taxing.

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But, so yeah, I got to division six.

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You should have seen,

this is Christine Ward.

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You should have seen her

face when she saw me.

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'cause she looked and then she

was like, she looked over at

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the Zoom, which I would've too.

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I'm not judging her for this,

but Who y'all was using my name?

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Hugh: Yeah.

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That was strange.

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And we had people sending that to us

who were sitting in the courtroom.

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And saw clearly that, that

Christine was in the courtroom.

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And had seen her there and we're sending

her texts with a picture of, you know,

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the, or screenshot from Zoom that

somebody is using her name , and yeah,

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Christine: it was crazy.

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And I wonder too, like my first

inclination was like, oh my

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gosh, is this like a setup?

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Is a judge trying to do something bad,

but, or like, is someone in the system?

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But I think that's just generally

maybe my paranoia and, 'cause this

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person didn't do anything that I saw,

they didn't turn their camera on, they

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just had the name Christine Miller.

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Which, granted, it's a relatively

common name, I guess, but,

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Hugh: well, . We stayed

for most of that docket.

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And that person didn't

have a case on, or No,

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Christine: I even looked at the docket.

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There was no Christine Millers.

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There was, yeah.

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Yeah.

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And it's interesting though, because

Miller, back in the day when we

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allocated cases by last name, Miller

would've gone to Christine Ward.

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So if I would've got divorced in

Jefferson County, Christine Ward

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would've been my judge by my last name.

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Hugh: Oh, that's interesting.

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Yeah, so we don't do

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Christine: it by last names anymore.

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They used to

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Hugh: be division nine.

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Christine: Really?

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Yeah.

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Mm-hmm.

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Thank goodness gracious.

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That would've been Miss Gina

Calvert back in the day.

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So we saw some good, some bad, but it

was, again, I'm two and a half years out.

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I look at stuff very differently.

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I feel like I try to.

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Look at it from just like a bystanders.

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Mm-hmm.

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You know, and then I could see you

in there, like making notes and

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like doing stuff like grid legal

argument or like, stuff like that.

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Yeah.

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So what did you think

were some good stuff?

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Hugh: I was still thinking from

an attorney point of view, so I

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was, I just found myself drawn

to the legal arguments that were

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being made more than the rulings.

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Mm-hmm.

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At first I, I sort of had to do

sort of , a change of perspective

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while we were sitting over there.

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I heard some good legal arguments.

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Mm-hmm.

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Some jurisdictional arguments, some

arguments over whether or not a counsel to

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a party in a family court action can ask

for a restraining order within that action

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rather than filing a separate action.

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There were, there were some interesting

things that you typically didn't see.

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Mm-hmm.

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Every week in motion, hour before,

so I found that to be interesting.

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There were also things that I saw all the

time that clearly continue to happen over

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Christine: there.

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I thought that the most positive thing

for me was Laura Russell, division nine.

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I thought she had amazing

courtroom control.

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Extremely prepared.

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Hugh: Yeah.

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She knew what was going on in

the cases when she called them.

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She was very professional to everyone,

even if they were very frustrating to her.

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Mm-hmm.

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She was patient, she was super efficient,

super, and moved through that docket.

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That was, yeah, I agree that,

yeah, definitely the most

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impressive thing for the day.

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And just

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Christine: for listeners, I got a

lot of personal attacks and backlash.

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I did not endorse her for judge.

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I endorsed her opponent.

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And this is where if you've been

following along, the Reddit post came.

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But you gotta give credit where credit

is due, and I will tell you that she

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handled that docket extraordinarily well.

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Yeah, , she did state too, that

she was gonna get orders out

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within two to three weeks, and

she was very clear, which I liked.

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Like on one case you'll rely,

like you might remember, she said.

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It'll be two to three weeks.

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And on another one she said that I'll

get it a week after the final person.

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And I'd love to hold her to account

for that, but I have no reason

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to doubt that she will do it.

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I just thought it was really,

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Hugh: had no reason to say it otherwise.

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Yeah.

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I mean, you're really setting

yourself up to say those things.

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Mm-hmm.

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If you're not gonna do

it, I, I was impressed.

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Christine: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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That was definitely the

highlight of the day.

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We had, well, what was your word?

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What was your best, I guess

just the legal arguments.

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Oh,

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Hugh: I

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Christine: actually,

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Hugh: I thought.

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There were several arguments that

Judge Ward did a very good job of

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differentiating between, here's

what I can do at motion hour.

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Here are the things we have to do for

a hearing, you know, telling counsel.

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I understand.

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Okay.

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We need to set that for a hearing.

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We're I'm, we're not gonna argue facts

and have a hearing, hearing motion hour.

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Is the way that it should be.

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But so often it doesn't happen that way.

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And

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Christine: yeah.

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And in Kentucky we do motions very

different than a lot of states.

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Yep.

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And so you file a motion, it goes

to a blanket motion hour, which is

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always on Mondays and you, there's a

half hour to an hour allocated, but

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usually you're up there talking to

the judge from anywhere from one to.

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Six minutes at the most.

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Really?

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Mm-hmm.

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I mean, possibly 10, but the

judges shouldn't do it like that.

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And so you just go and

it's usually pretty quick.

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And so you thought that was

a good thing from Christine?

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Did she had some weird,

complicated cases on

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Hugh: that day.

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Yeah, I agree.

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I don't know how, they were just odd.

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I'm not sure how complicated they are,

but they were things that obviously.

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She didn't see that often,

and I didn't see that often.

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I didn't know, I didn't know

off the top of my head what the

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easy answer was on any of them.

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So I guess they are, they're

more complex than usual, but

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they, it was, it was bizarre.

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There were a couple things that.

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I had to sit up and take notice

and I had to ask you, wait,

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are they arguing over this?

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Christine: Right?

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Well, the one that, and it was right

before you got there, that Florida case.

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I wanna follow that case.

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I talked about it, yeah.

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Essentially it seems to be there is

a family with one child and there are

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three potential places where actions,

legal actions are taking place.

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We've got.

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The actual divorce or custody action

in Louisville, Jefferson County.

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Mm-hmm.

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There is a domestic violence criminal

charge out of Bullitt County, Kentucky.

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And then one of the parties has

allegedly fled to Florida allegedly

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escaping domestic violence.

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And there is not a fleeing

statute in Florida.

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According to counsel

for one of the parties.

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And what that means is that

typically, if you come to Kentucky

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fleeing domestic violence, you

can get a protection order here.

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Yes.

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Right.

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So there's also CPS in Florida based

on these criminal allegations here.

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And Florida is saying,

don't send the kid back.

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And then we had Christine Ward

saying This child needs to be back

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in the Commonwealth of Kentucky.

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Within one week

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Hugh: she has jurisdiction.

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It's, you know, she, , it's incumbent

upon her to make sure that that

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child doesn't become someone else's

jurisdiction while this is pending.

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So she has the ability to do that.

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I don't think, I didn't get the

feeling she was ruling one way or the

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other on any of the underlying facts.

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Christine: Yeah.

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It sounded like they had

a hearing for September.

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Mm-hmm.

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And it doesn't appear from.

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To me that there has been any sort

of hearings, like of substantive

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or watching any of, if there are

any videos or recordings or photos.

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And so I wonder, I wasn't clear

on the ruling, like the child, I

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was clear that the child needed to

be back in Kentucky by next week.

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Mm-hmm.

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But I wasn't clear if the court

was gonna give the child to the

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other parent with the alleged DV

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Hugh: No, , I didn't get that.

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I didn't get a, a feeling one

way or the other about that.

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I think it was just.

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The child needs to be in this

jurisdiction till we sort this out,

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Christine: which if you're

fleeing domestic violence, it,

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you know, it's just complicated.

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It's, I think it's something

to follow and this shows.

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What can happen when you get numerous

jurisdictions or courts involved because

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at a minimum right now we've got a

Louisville judge, a Bullitt County judge.

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Sure.

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And CPS out of Florida.

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Yep.

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So that's three people

with their hands in the pot

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Hugh: well, that's true.

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And, and the ruling wasn't that

I'm making all the decisions here,

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it was just the child needs to be

back in Kentucky, first of all.

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And I think also.

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If there's going to be a conference of

judges with competing jurisdictions,

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there need to be some orders set.

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It seemed like she was setting

the ground rules that okay,

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it might end up in Florida.

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There may be some protections here.

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The judges, we need to talk.

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Right now the order is bringing the child

back, and now we've got something in

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writing, especially if they're at an early

stage in the case that someone can take

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to Florida and say, here's the ruling that

we have, but here's why this happened.

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Christine: It's interesting to me the,

from like a pragmatic in the system,

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not necessarily the legalities, but

we, I heard no testimony or argument

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that the party that has to come back

has a place to reside in Kentucky.

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I mean, if there's domestic

violence, certainly that person

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can't go back to the home.

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Hugh: No, I agree.

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Christine: There was no testimony

as to whether or not that person,

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you know, had any family here.

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So that is.

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When you're making these decisions.

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That's just something to follow.

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I also want everyone to

understand the nature of these

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motion hours is that it's quick.

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We aren't doing an in-depth thing.

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We wanna get your opinion so we can

follow certain cases and do more research.

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Sure.

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Hugh: Now, this one was just interesting

because it had so many moving parts.

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Mm-hmm.

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And it seemed like we were hearing

about it and hearing what was going

406

:

on at the very early stages of it.

407

:

Yeah.

408

:

So it would be something that we could

follow, I think with jurisdiction.

409

:

Clearly kids aren't objects.

410

:

Yeah.

411

:

Yeah.

412

:

But looking at a court's jurisdiction

over the, what it's going to rule

413

:

on the child or whether it's a car.

414

:

If you're having a dispute over a

car and someone takes off and goes

415

:

to Indiana with the car from Kentucky

while that dispute is going on, it

416

:

would not be outta the ordinary at all

for a judge to say that car needs to

417

:

be back here in the state of Kentucky.

418

:

It and.

419

:

I certainly don't mean to imply

that Judge Ward looks at children

420

:

and treats them like property, but

from a court point of view, this

421

:

is what you have jurisdiction over.

422

:

This is before you, you've accepted

jurisdiction over this case 'cause

423

:

it's moving forward in your courtroom.

424

:

The child needs to be here in

order to exercise that now.

425

:

Certainly.

426

:

If there is a protective order or

there's been findings of a court with

427

:

competent jurisdiction that there's

been domestic violence, I'm sure that

428

:

that would affect the ruling and what

Judge Ward would go forward and do.

429

:

Christine: But how would you get

those findings if you don't have

430

:

a fleeing statue in Florida?

431

:

And obviously there's

not gonna be anything.

432

:

You know, in the criminal case.

433

:

Now that being said, this goes back

to the whole big debate about family

434

:

court in general as a court of equity.

435

:

But if it's gonna be a court that

operates under the rules of procedure,

436

:

the rules of evidence in the exact same

way that a circuit court or district

437

:

court would, then there needs to be

this check and balance with juries.

438

:

You know, you can't have

your cake and eat it too.

439

:

And I think sometimes that's

what family court decides to do.

440

:

And I hear the legal argument of it

and I don't know the answer to it.

441

:

I just think it's one of those

where we can't like prescribe

442

:

in the law how to address this

family that's clearly in crisis.

443

:

Hugh: Well, I agree.

444

:

I don't know that I don't, this

is just one of those things

445

:

where I think the courts are.

446

:

The last place you would want

to deal with family issues.

447

:

Mm-hmm.

448

:

It's a place of last resort.

449

:

It needs to be, and there are

shortcomings that I'm not sure

450

:

there's an easy solution for.

451

:

Yeah.

452

:

I think a fleeing statute is not

the only way that jurisdiction

453

:

could be found in Florida.

454

:

I mean, U-C-C-J-E-A sets forth some

ways that jurisdiction could be found

455

:

on an emergency basis in Florida.

456

:

I imagine I'm not trying

to interpret Florida laws

457

:

Christine: I don't know

the residency requirement.

458

:

Well,

459

:

Hugh: no, no, I'm just, I, I've

regular leasing judges get very

460

:

defensive over their jurisdiction

when it appears that someone might

461

:

be going and trying to forum shop.

462

:

If you're truly escaping domestic

violence, that's not what you're doing.

463

:

Mm-hmm.

464

:

But people do it all the time.

465

:

People that for instance, if you're in

a divorce and you live in a separate,

466

:

you, you have residences in two states,

you're gonna pick the state that is.

467

:

Most beneficial for you?

468

:

, The laws are more helpful for

your side of the case and judges.

469

:

Oh, absolutely.

470

:

See that all the time.

471

:

Christine: You'll see

celebrities constantly fighting

472

:

over California and Florida.

473

:

Hugh: Well, I trying to

474

:

Christine: get residency for divorces.

475

:

Hugh: People would come to us and we

would run their names through the court

476

:

system in the state in Kentucky and

the states surrounding it, and it was.

477

:

Fairly rare, , but not nearly as

rare as you would hope that we would

478

:

run it and find that people had gone

to other counties and filed mm-hmm.

479

:

And not, and were moving forward.

480

:

Oftentimes claiming they couldn't serve

or didn't know where the other party

481

:

was, even though they clearly did, they

were just looking for a different judge.

482

:

They didn't like a ruling or.

483

:

They wanted to be in a county where

they might have some family to stay

484

:

with, but the other side would, it

would be very hard for them to travel

485

:

court and, and we would see that

486

:

Christine: we have a,

in Kentucky actually.

487

:

Every county has

jurisdiction over a divorce.

488

:

Mm-hmm.

489

:

Even if you don't live there.

490

:

Mm-hmm.

491

:

It's just not the appropriate venue

form which jurisdiction would come

492

:

first as far as the test goes.

493

:

So a lot of people will file for

divorce in a different county.

494

:

Yep.

495

:

Especially if it's uncontested.

496

:

And the reason for doing that is just to

kind of hide it, you know what I mean?

497

:

Just have to

498

:

Hugh: be staying there

for Yeah, for the moment.

499

:

I don't even think you have to stay there.

500

:

Christine: Nope.

501

:

I think that I filed for

divorce in Old County.

502

:

My divorce was filed in Olden

County and I've never lived there.

503

:

Thank you.

504

:

Judge Goodwin, LOL I digress.

505

:

Anything else about that?

506

:

, Hugh: I had a client one time who came

in and was having trouble with, and

507

:

I can't remember if it was insurance

or something else, and found out that

508

:

someone had married him, he was married.

509

:

To a crazy ex who had, had somebody stand

in for him, pretend to be him, forge his

510

:

name and gotten a marriage certificate,

511

:

Christine: LOL.

512

:

And so that is hysterical.

513

:

Hugh: And then she had gone into court.

514

:

I don't remember if she'd gone

into court to divorce him, even

515

:

though they were never married.

516

:

He was married to his longtime wife

and had kids and all of this stuff.

517

:

And so the woman who had fraudulently

married him was then getting

518

:

orders within family court.

519

:

Against him, can't make it up.

520

:

And he came in for something else and

we ran his name and discovered all of

521

:

this stuff and had to untangle it all.

522

:

Can you imagine finding out

that someone had married you?

523

:

I mean it was invalid of course.

524

:

Obvious 'cause he was already

married, but there were, there

525

:

were so many problems with that.

526

:

Christine: Yeah.

527

:

One of the craziest cases I have

when I was a public defender was a

528

:

guy charged with bigamy and they did

a persistent felony offender 'cause

529

:

he was a felon from something else.

530

:

He was a convicted felon and I

was just like, we are not p oing,

531

:

which PFO enhances the sentence.

532

:

I'm like, we are not p

oing a bigamy charge.

533

:

Okay.

534

:

That is ridiculous.

535

:

But they wanted to go forward on the

bigamy charge be, it's a long story,

536

:

but it was eastern Kentucky and I, in

my opinion, they were targeting the guy.

537

:

But I digress.

538

:

Hugh: So in, you mentioned in

Eastern Kentucky they have.

539

:

Press in the courtrooms in motion hour.

540

:

Christine: Absolutely.

541

:

Every motion hour that I ever

went to in Montgomery Circuit

542

:

Court, bath Circuit Court.

543

:

I think now Montgomery for sure, , we

would have a local reporter sitting there

544

:

in the courtroom and just taking notes.

545

:

Hugh: Wow.

546

:

Christine: Which I

thought was just common.

547

:

I mean, it would be common

for reporters to come up to me

548

:

and try to ask me questions.

549

:

Even in small counties like Bath County,

if they had something salacious on, or

550

:

Menifee County, or certainly Morehead,

I believe Morehead, they had more press

551

:

'cause Morehead's a little bigger.

552

:

But yesterday we were effectively

the press that were in court.

553

:

And how many stories do you think we

could have done on five different courts?

554

:

Hugh: Oh.

555

:

Probably at least two or

three From each court.

556

:

From what?

557

:

From , the times we were there.

558

:

Mm-hmm.

559

:

We were not there for the

entire motion hour of each one

560

:

because they tend to run over.

561

:

Yep.

562

:

Each one runs over.

563

:

We would go to the next one.

564

:

Mm-hmm.

565

:

So we didn't even, I don't believe we

viewed one single entire motion hour.

566

:

Mm-hmm.

567

:

Because we had to then go onto the next

one, but at least two to three per court.

568

:

Christine: I wrote down, 'cause

I was just taking notes on

569

:

things I thought people would.

570

:

Find interesting and I had 14 cases

and I think all 14 of those cases

571

:

we could have done something with.

572

:

And it's so perplexing to me why the

local media doesn't come in there.

573

:

And some of the stories would involve

something that I think we'll be

574

:

able to follow up on next week and

get the answer to the reporting.

575

:

And some may take three years, but

there are just stories for days.

576

:

I mean, for example, just the judge

not swearing the interpreter in.

577

:

I mean, that's so simple and

so simplistic, but like, so,

578

:

Hugh: so is that your worst?

579

:

Thing of the day.

580

:

Christine: This was in Judge Denise Brown,

TikTok, judge, , I thought her division

581

:

was the most frustrating for me 'cause

it was very evident it was packed because

582

:

she'd canceled motion hours in July and

it was clear as day that she hadn't read.

583

:

And she wasn't prepared for court.

584

:

And that was my opinion.

585

:

I mean, she was flipping through

the pages, like she always does.

586

:

I was just thinking if we played a

drinking game with every time she

587

:

flipped a page, it would be like

Super Bowl Sunday, every Monday.

588

:

You know what I mean?

589

:

And there was obviously cases that

were called that she was just like,

590

:

when she saw us there, you know, she

was like, I'm gonna recall this case.

591

:

'cause she had no idea

what was going on, in my

592

:

Hugh: opinion.

593

:

Well, I, I thought it

was, it was very clear.

594

:

The judges that, that understood what was

going on in each case that they called.

595

:

Yep.

596

:

And they would call them in order.

597

:

They sometimes wouldn't

even look down at the paper.

598

:

They knew which attorneys were on it.

599

:

They, they were prepared

for the arguments mm-hmm.

600

:

That were gonna come up.

601

:

And sometimes the judge would start and

say, I understand this and that, but.

602

:

Here's what I think we

need to address today.

603

:

And it was clear they knew

what was going on in that case.

604

:

Mm-hmm.

605

:

And in stark contrast, in other

divisions, the judge would call a case,

606

:

figure out, ask who's on that case?

607

:

So is everybody here?

608

:

They get them up there, and then

basically it was a blank slate and you'd

609

:

be arguing and there would be no, no

prep whatsoever on it, which would mean.

610

:

It would take longer.

611

:

Mm-hmm.

612

:

The attorneys would have to give

all of the background before making

613

:

their arguments and then there'd

be the page flipping and reading

614

:

through things and, it was just

very different how they prepared

615

:

Christine: totes.

616

:

I would say Derwin Webb, he does a

new protocol for how he calls cases.

617

:

I loved it.

618

:

I thought it was , it was perfect.

619

:

It was very similar to what they

do in Mass, but it was kinda

620

:

like a roll call, first call.

621

:

Everybody knew.

622

:

Mm-hmm.

623

:

He, he seemed prepared.

624

:

And Laura Russell nine in 10.

625

:

We're ready to go.

626

:

I would say to be fair, to

Judge Ward in six, I didn't see

627

:

the beginning of motion hour.

628

:

Mm-hmm.

629

:

She did seem prepared

though, in the things I saw,

630

:

Hugh: and some of those cases

were just a little different.

631

:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

632

:

Than normal.

633

:

The ones that we sat and watched

were not your ordinary cases , and

634

:

the attorneys actually came

up and sat at the tables Yeah.

635

:

As if you were having a hearing

because you were really getting into

636

:

some, some, some different legal

arguments and that they weren't.

637

:

Sworn in.

638

:

They weren't having factual hearings.

639

:

They were actual legal arguments.

640

:

It was proper for motion hour, but

it was just clear that they were

641

:

a little bit more complex Yeah.

642

:

And involved , than the typical

stuff that you do up at the podium.

643

:

Christine: That's so true.

644

:

But I, I mean, she's typically

prepared for the most part.

645

:

Okay.

646

:

But I would say it was clear that

seven and eight were not prepared.

647

:

Hugh: Oh eight was my low point.

648

:

I think.

649

:

It's hard to pick.

650

:

I think , the part that that was a

low point for me was just because

651

:

of what I had experienced so much.

652

:

In my practice, and that was a judge

asking the friend of court what they

653

:

think about motions before they give

their opinion a rule on something.

654

:

So friend of court is they're not

an attorney representing someone.

655

:

They are a witness.

656

:

They are there to prepare

a report, a factual report,

657

:

not make legal conclusions.

658

:

At motion hour, people are

bringing legal motions.

659

:

You're not hearing factual issues.

660

:

If you're going to hear factual

issues, you have a hearing

661

:

Christine: with what?

662

:

Hugh: What do you mean sworn testimony?

663

:

Well,

664

:

Christine: well,

665

:

Hugh: that, that was the very close

second for the, for the low point.

666

:

Not, you know, having an interpreter

there and not swearing the party in at

667

:

first, and then ne finally realizing the

air and never swearing an interpreter in.

668

:

But when people are making

legal arguments at motion hour,

669

:

that's purely not fact-based.

670

:

The fact that a judge

would be deferential to.

671

:

A friend of the court or want to

know what their opinion is on the

672

:

fly, not having filed a report, not

having anybody have the opportunity

673

:

to review that report and their notes

to know what would into the report.

674

:

Mm-hmm.

675

:

But just basically an unsworn witness to

advise the judge while standing there.

676

:

That, that bothers me.

677

:

Yeah.

678

:

That's one of the things I think

is most broken in the system.

679

:

To her credit, , the one that I'm

thinking of that was the worst, actually

680

:

said, this is not something that

I'm, you know, I'm FOC on this case.

681

:

This doesn't pertain to anything.

682

:

That true.

683

:

You know, I'm, I'm really working on,

, I shouldn't have an opinion on this.

684

:

Yeah.

685

:

And that's correct.

686

:

Christine: And I don't think the judge,

he didn't seem to be aware that that

687

:

was the proper, you know, call on that.

688

:

Yeah.

689

:

I don't know why he defers to them so

much, especially after how much he's

690

:

been kicked by the court of appeals.

691

:

Yeah.

692

:

Agreed.

693

:

Also the two cases,

right, that weren't there.

694

:

Hugh: Oh, yeah.

695

:

You, you had mentioned page flipping.

696

:

This was, we saw cases being called

this was also in division eight

697

:

cases would be called, and he

would mention, oh, they didn't send

698

:

the case file up from downstairs.

699

:

I just have, and I

forget what they call it.

700

:

There's just a mini version

of Just a placeholder.

701

:

Yeah.

702

:

With the case name and the

information, but not the case file.

703

:

And so he would have to.

704

:

Call it again later and send someone to

get the file, which begs the question, how

705

:

could you have read the motions and looked

at it if you don't have the case file?

706

:

Christine: Yeah.

707

:

Also, how could you have

708

:

Hugh: prepared for motion hour

if , you're, you're finding out on

709

:

the bench at motion hour that you

don't have the case file to review.

710

:

Literally for the arguments.

711

:

Christine: Also, the, his motion

hours at:

712

:

lunch, you know, like you didn't

prep for the day and what did he have

713

:

maybe five, six cases to be called?

714

:

Like you think you'd be like, I need

to make sure I have all the cases to

715

:

be called, you know, here on my cart.

716

:

Yeah.

717

:

I don't know.

718

:

Hugh: Especially, you know.

719

:

I'm wondering, and it's hard to tell

when, but sometimes , when a judge

720

:

indicates on the pre rulings for

motion hour to be signed, it means,

721

:

I agree with this motion, I'm gonna

enter it unless somebody objects.

722

:

Mm-hmm.

723

:

I would've liked to have known if someone

objected to a case and he had to call

724

:

it, if any of those would be missing.

725

:

Oh, I be bet.

726

:

'cause how do you decide that you're

going to sign a tendered order?

727

:

Mm-hmm if you don't even have the case.

728

:

Christine: Also, we had been to 5, 6, 7

and they didn't have any missing files.

729

:

So it was just perplexing to me

how this was an eight issue and

730

:

there were no missing files and

nine and 10 at least that we saw.

731

:

No, that I recall.

732

:

Hugh: No, I agree.

733

:

I just, it's hard to see how someone

can be prepared for those motions if you

734

:

don't even have the file to look at them.

735

:

Christine: Yeah, and I do think this goes

back to are they reading the motions?

736

:

And I think it was personally clear to

me that in division seven and eight,

737

:

they hadn't read the motions that they

were ruling on and not all of them.

738

:

Hugh: Yeah, , it was very clear

which ones had uhhuh and it was also.

739

:

They cleared, they went through their

docket and it was just like clockwork.

740

:

Mm-hmm.

741

:

It keeps the attorneys from

having to give the background

742

:

and get into factual recitations.

743

:

And when you are reciting facts as an

advocate, you're going to recite them in

744

:

a way that's favorable to your client.

745

:

Yep.

746

:

Which is going to beg for

747

:

Christine: back and

748

:

Hugh: forth and back forth

and forth, back and forth.

749

:

The other side, well

that's not my version.

750

:

And when you start getting into

that, then the motion hours

751

:

take for they take a long time.

752

:

Mm-hmm.

753

:

And you just get into factual arguments.

754

:

That's not what you're there for, right?

755

:

You're there to, to argue legal

things, do procedural things, and

756

:

then get hearings on anything that

needs to be decided factually.

757

:

Christine: Yep.

758

:

And one of the attorneys in Division

eight also said, your Honor, I

759

:

filed our motions, so any motion

that goes on in motion hour has to

760

:

be filed by the previous Tuesday.

761

:

This attorney said,

judge, I filed a reply.

762

:

I filed it on Thursday.

763

:

Have you read it?

764

:

And he was like, Nope.

765

:

Which just what are we doing here?

766

:

It's a waste of the client's money.

767

:

If we're gonna have a motion hour where

the motions and the replies haven't been

768

:

read and the file's not up there, and

they're probably being billed for that

769

:

motion, depending on how long it is.

770

:

The motion hour appearance, at a minimum,

that's $500, and that is a minimum

771

:

Hugh: now in Circuit Court.

772

:

Is the deadline still noon on Thursday?

773

:

For filing the motions, do you know?

774

:

No, no, no.

775

:

It's much later than in family court.

776

:

Christine: Oh, oh.

777

:

Family court.

778

:

Motion hours and circuit.

779

:

I have no idea.

780

:

Hugh: Yeah, I mean, they, so

Thursday, you know, filing response

781

:

on Thursday or would not even be

that late over in circuit court.

782

:

Now I completely understand when

attorneys will file a response

783

:

to a motion on Monday morning.

784

:

Before court.

785

:

Christine: No shit.

786

:

And then

787

:

Hugh: the judge hasn't seen it.

788

:

Of course they haven't seen it.

789

:

And if I ever had to do that because

someone failed to notice me on a motion

790

:

and I had to file it last second, , I

would take the response to the court so

791

:

they could look at it at motion hour,

because I wouldn't expect them to see it.

792

:

But if you filed something, you know,

a day and a half after the motion

793

:

was filed, you kind of expect that I

would, as a judge, expect that anyone

794

:

that has a motion filed against them.

795

:

I always filed responses to motions.

796

:

Christine: Sometimes I

did, sometimes I didn't.

797

:

But bigger picture, it's just,

there's a blatant difference

798

:

in filing it before the week.

799

:

Period is over and the same day.

800

:

Sure.

801

:

But Thursday, if he's not read

it, I mean, it's just a waste

802

:

of the parties, but I digress.

803

:

Lastly, let's just briefly talk about,

we talked about the hierarchy of

804

:

attorneys, GALs, FOCs, and judges, right?

805

:

Mm-hmm.

806

:

Judges on the top.

807

:

We saw all the FOCs GALs

just hanging together.

808

:

Hugh: Yeah, that's laughing.

809

:

Sitting at the front of the court waiting

to be appointed the same handful of

810

:

people, in fact, I believe it was three.

811

:

Three.

812

:

Mm-hmm.

813

:

For the second half of the day in

Jefferson County, it was three people

814

:

sitting up at the front waiting for

those appointments and getting all

815

:

of those appointments and getting

referenced on, you know, a third of

816

:

the cases that were called, they would

stand up and sometimes get questioned

817

:

about , their position on a case.

818

:

Now, if you're a GAL, that's.

819

:

Proper, you or an attorney

representing a party.

820

:

You may have a position on a

certain motion, but still again.

821

:

FOCs, I don't understand why they're

standing up at motion hour , and

822

:

giving their opinion to a court.

823

:

Christine: Well, I don't understand why

they have superiority for the judge.

824

:

They're just lawyers.

825

:

I understand that they're

getting this immunity now.

826

:

Lawyers in Louisville, obviously we've got

, really, nothing but positive feedback.

827

:

We had attorneys like following

us out, following us around.

828

:

Mm-hmm.

829

:

Like I had so many text messages

yesterday, but there are two in

830

:

particular, GALs and FOCs that.

831

:

Lawyers, you need to be careful

about speaking to us publicly because

832

:

there are two that will go back and

publicly say positive things about

833

:

the judges on Facebook and likely tell

the judges who you're speaking to.

834

:

Yes, sir.

835

:

And so I would be very, very careful.

836

:

There's likely a third one, but we will

keep up on that and we will try to figure

837

:

out a way to figure out how many of these

appointments, these GALS, FOCs are on

838

:

because it's likely paying their mortgage

these appointments, and then some.

839

:

Hugh: \Becomes your

full-time job, I think.

840

:

Mm-hmm.

841

:

Or it should, if you're taking as many

appointments as some of them do, it

842

:

really should be two full-time jobs.

843

:

Christine: Yeah.

844

:

And y'all please, we're starting

the new investigative series.

845

:

We broke it down to each division.

846

:

Go watch each division and if there's

a case on a fact pattern that you

847

:

like, tell us so we know which

ones that you want us to follow.

848

:

Keep telling your stories to judge y.com

849

:

and follow at judging the

judges on YouTube and Instagram.

850

:

Thank y'all.

851

:

Thanks.

852

:

Next call.

853

:

We need some justice, justice, justice.

854

:

And I wanna ring bells in public.

855

:

I wanna ring bes in public nor crowd.

856

:

Yeah, but I To the fo Yeah.

857

:

I To the fo Yeah.

858

:

I to the fo fo teaser.

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About the Podcast

The JudgeMental Podcast
From the Creators of Judge-y
The JudgeMental Podcast features two attorneys, Hugh and Christine, who bring over three decades of combined litigation experience to the mic. Now venturing into a bold new initiative—"Judge-y", a website and soon-to-be app—they aim to give lawyers and litigants a platform to evaluate judges and promote accountability within the judiciary.

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Hugh Barrow