BONUS EP: Custodial Evaluators

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Welcome to the Judgmental Podcast.

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This is a bonus edition where

we talk about current events

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happening in Louisville, Kentucky

pertaining to custodial evaluations.

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This is a must listen.

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Speaker 4: Next call.

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We need some

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Speaker 5: justice, justice, justice.

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And I wanna ring bells in public.

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I wanna ring bes in public nor crowd.

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Yeah, but I To the fo Yeah.

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I To the fo Yeah.

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Speaker 6: I to the fo fo

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teaser.

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Christine: At motion hour today.

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There was something really unique

that happened in Derwin's court.

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An attorney has filed at least two,

and it's my understanding there are.

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Three motions to disqualify a

commonly used custodial evaluator,

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Kelly, Marvin and Kristen McCreary.

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Marvin and McCreary.

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Now there's an expert out of

Florida that has talked about a

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lot of issues within their reports.

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I posted a TikTok today.

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Saying, Hey, anyone that's got, and I'm

gonna post the full motion that was file

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was filed on my TikTok, and we can figure

out how to post it on our YouTube channel.

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But I posted a TikTok, Hey, anybody,

McCreary and Marvin, within 24 minutes,

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I had emails of people that don't follow

us that said, this was sent to me.

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Here's the report of

what they did in my case.

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Hugh: Yeah, , I'm not surprised at all.

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I've seen such I, I've seen.

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Oh, I've seen so many problems , and

this is what happens when you have a

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virtual monopoly on, on doing a certain

type of work within family court.

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This is what happens when we have

either, you know, too few of any of the

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roles that are used in family court.

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You, you just start having problems

like this and we've had it in different

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cycles with different people with

custodial evaluations in the past, but.

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Th Yeah, this has been going on for

some time, and it's not surprising

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to me at all that people started

reaching out immediately about it.

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Christine: I mean, in there, this motion,

they have a plethora favorite word, alert.

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We should play a drinking game every

time I say that or say traumatic.

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But I mean, people wouldn't

be able to make it through.

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, Hugh: I wouldn't, I wouldn't.

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I've got a pretty good tolerance,

and I think I would be, I would be on

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the floor by the end of the podcast.

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Christine: Or bizarre.

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I had somebody randomly text

me and be like, not text me,

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send me a Facebook message.

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'cause people are so sweet online,

but just like, could you say bizarre?

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Any one more time on the Talk

of Louisville podcast and it's

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just calm down, don't listen.

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Oh, that's funny.

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That, that's one that

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Hugh: I use pretty, I I think

I use that one more than you.

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Christine: I don't even

know what else to say.

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It's like bizarre is the only

thing I can come up with because

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it makes no fucking sense.

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But, so we could

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Hugh: say that, but people would

probably take offense to that.

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Christine: Oh, I mean, there's nothing I

do that doesn't offend people, apparently.

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Allegedly.

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Oh my gosh.

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But so in this test, I just wanna

read a few of these things really

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quick and then we'll post it.

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But they found confirmation bias

testing fatigue, uneven unbalanced

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interview time, the team approach to

psychological testing, which I thought

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was really fascinating because as you

know, those two often work in a team.

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It says the A FCC models say that

each person, each team member must

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be clearly defined and documented.

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I thought that was very

fascinating 'cause you and I

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both know they're not doing that.

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Hugh: That's worth a deep dive.

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Christine: Yes.

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Oh, and then their test selection the

fact that they use the child abuse risk

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evaluation, which is CARE, they were

utilizing it almost to like diagnose when

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they were saying that it has not been

used in North America until recently.

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And it goes to assess like Marvin

and McCreary claim, it assesses.

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One's risk for engaging in certain

behaviors, and this evaluator

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says, it ha it does nothing to

predict the future whatsoever.

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Hugh: Yeah.

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So I thought

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Christine: that was fascinating.

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Hugh: Yeah, I mean, I, I, there

was a time in my practice I

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would regularly hire experts to

contradict custodial evaluations.

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And honestly what was found

most was that the tests that

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were being administered did not.

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Did not correlate to

the results being found.

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And I don't mean the specific results,

but the types of findings that were being

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made, the appropriate tests for making

those types of findings were not correct.

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The this test is, is intended to show

X, Y, and Z, not A, B, and C, and yet

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they're basing A, B, and C on this test.

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That's not meant for that, and that

was the thing that I found the most.

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Now, I also found that only one time.

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Maybe in my whole litigation career did

I find a judge listen to an encounter

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expert and not just go along with

whoever had been court appointed.

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But it, it did work from

time to time and I just.

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That, yeah, that, that was the

problem that I saw the most.

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It was within the testing of them.

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I, the team approach though,

was very interesting.

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Christine: Well, and this one's also

very fascinating because a lot of my

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followers and our followers and our

listeners, they won't send us stuff

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because on the top of the evaluations

that both Kelly, Marvin Christian McCreary

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and Catherine Burle, that's another,

those are the three bigs in Louisville.

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Right.

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They put on their

privileged and confidential.

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Have you seen that right?

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Oh, yes.

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Hugh: Oh, yes.

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Christine: And so they found

that custodial evaluations

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conducted in family law cases

are prepared for the court's use.

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It's inappropriate, it's not

private and confidential.

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And that's inappropriate to say.

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And that may, that was always what was

so troublesome to me, is that these

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people going through this are told,

Hey, don't ever show this to anyone.

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You can't ever use this.

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You know what I mean?

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And, and they paid

thousands of dollars for it.

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Hugh: Yep.

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I mean, I mean we, we've heard

people say that their attorneys

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won't even show it to them.

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They'll just tell them kind of what's

happening, that they've been so scared

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about the confidential language, they

won't even send it to their own clients.

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Christine: And that was outta California

and we are talking with him tomorrow.

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So if you're listening to this episode,

that one will ne likely be next, which is

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out of California, like I said, where I

feel like we're baby California right now.

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And then they do more of the te

types of team evaluations saying

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they violated blah, blah, blah.

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Then they were using clinical

tools in a forensic setting, which

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is what's always bothered me.

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They just put the word forensic in front

of a word they use and claim that It's

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like forensic just means in court, right?

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Hugh: Well, yeah.

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I mean, you, we, there's a much

broader discussion about how

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scientific psychological examinations

are, and there's, there's strong

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opinions on both, both sides there.

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But it seems like a way to try to make

it sound more efficient, more scientific.

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Christine: More like important.

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Hugh: But, but again, I, I think it, I

think we gotta point out that this is what

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we're talking about is a motion that's

been filed in a case alleging things that

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had happened in a custodial evaluation.

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These are not our findings.

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These are not things that we've read the

custodial evaluation, we've found them.

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We're just telling you what's in a

motion that is currently in Division 10.

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Christine: That's in a, a

matter of public record.

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Yes.

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And there's been two filed.

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Then there's also the notion talking

about how the tests that were used

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were u are typically utilized for

European, basically white people.

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Which is very fascinating too, to think

about from a psychological standpoint.

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Sure.

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Because we have a very diverse

population here in Louisville, Kentucky.

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Additionally, last one actually, I think,

no, there's like 17, I'm not kidding.

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This is like so many bad

things, but identifying relevant

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information in a timely manner.

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This order to begin a custodial

evaluation was designed in December

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of 2021, and so, and then the order

was entered, I mean the report report

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was December of 2024, so three years.

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Hugh: Yep, I've encountered it.

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I've encountered oh, same a case

where we were all, we were about

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four years into the case and

we still didn't have a report.

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We had some preliminary, here's

probably what I'm going to find.

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Yeah, that was with someone that was

appointed that was not a local person.

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It was someone that we council had

agreed to use somebody completely

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different than in, in the local scene.

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But we were, we were all disappointed

that it, that process took much, much,

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much longer than even, even locally.

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Well, maybe not much, much longer, but

it took longer than we had experienced

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here with, with people in Louisville.

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Christine: But three years,

I mean, what's the point?

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I mean, and the kids are just status quo.

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Like what are the kids supposed to do?

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Which shows Well, that's

what, what happened in

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Hugh: the case I was talking about

the kids were Yeah, were teenagers.

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And by the time there could have been

a report, the parties just acknowledged

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that their, you know, the kids, at

least in that case, the parents.

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But parents had done a good

job raising their kids.

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And the kids, you know, it was sort

of set what was going to happen.

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And, and they had like.

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Their final year before they went

off to college and whatever came

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out in a report wouldn't have

mattered anyway at that point.

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Christine: Yep.

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Hugh: But, but that one was $70,000.

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The custodian guy was 70,000.

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Mm-hmm.

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Christine: I mean, that is kids school.

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So interim recommendations, which

this has always bothered me.

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I never allowed for it.

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But the fact that it's saying

they're issuing recommendations

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while they're doing their

evaluation, I mean, that's insane.

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Well, and conducting

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Hugh: mediations.

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Before the report's done

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Christine: insane.

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That's insane.

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Insane.

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I mean, what is the point of

this being, you know, I digress.

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Failed to find strengths in this family.

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I'm gonna quote this one, then I'll

read the rest of 'em really quick

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and we can do a deep dive because

I know it's been a long episode.

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But this evaluation fails to account for

the family's overall, overall wellbeing.

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There is an absence of mental illness.

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Substance abuse or domestic violence.

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It appears that the conclusions

are an over pathological

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formulation of this family.

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So y'all, there is a family in Louisville,

Kentucky that has had a, it'll be for

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four years before they go to trial.

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They're not going to trial till 2026.

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There's an absence of mental

illness, substance abuse, or domestic

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violence, and they're in this.

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This is what's happening in family court.

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Insane.

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Hugh: Yeah, they get, you get stuck in

the system and that that machine just

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grinds you up and never, never releases.

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You.

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Christine: Then last like use of

professional literature and oh, sorry.

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Gatekeeping alienation analysis.

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This is interesting.

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We need to go down that rabbit hole.

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Credibility, determination.

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And last but not least, least,

methodological imbalance.

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And that's basically saying you talk

to one party way more than you talk to

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the other, which happens all the time.

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But y'all, I did a, I've gotten so many

emails from people all over the country.

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If you have Marvin or

McCreary or Catherine Burley.

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Send me your reports and send me

your bills all over the country.

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If I wanna see the bills for these

custodial evaluators, it is my personal

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or my, my work like investigative email

is, it's Miller time Louisville at

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Gmail, and you can send all your stories.

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Please submit all your

stories to judge y.com

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and I'm sure you have stuff you wanna say.

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I just wanted to get that in there.

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Hugh: No, no, no, I agree.

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I think the methodological imbalances

or, you know, talking to one person

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a lot more than the other, I think.

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One of the ways that I, you know,

I found in my practice that that

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was happening pretty regularly

and even if it wasn't, the clients

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had the perception that it was.

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Mm-hmm.

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So one of the ways you would look

at it is, look at detailed billings.

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Same thing you do with an FOC or, or

sometimes a parenting coordinator if,

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if they're keeping billing records the

way they should, you should be able

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to see how long their conversations

are and who they're speaking with.

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But that was, yeah, that was something

I encountered quite a bit, I think.

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I think we gotta say again.

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What we're talking about here is

raised in a motion, not something

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that we filed, is raised in a

motion by a litigant in a case.

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It rang true to us because of what

we experienced during our time as

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practitioners, but it's something

that I think the public needs

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to understand a lot better how

these custodial evaluators work.

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I'm, I'm excited to, to dive

into this, but the, the.

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Allegations that were being discussed are

being made in public record by a litigant

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in a case that we're not involved in.

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Christine: Yes.

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And to connect this to Orange

County, there was an evaluator

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out there that's currently being

investigated, and that's how the

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parents that I interacted with had met.

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But out there, this is Dr.

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Reinhardt.

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This is all public record.

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Never met this woman, but

a custodial evaluation and

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allegedly, according to this.

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The father was given the children,

and again, according to if you Google

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it this doctor was accused of SA

and was criminally charged for it.

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So again, a pattern that I do not want

to see come to Louisville, Kentucky.

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Hugh: yep, agreed.

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Christine: So, all

right, y'all, judge-y.com

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Kentuckychristine, on all platforms

for me, Judge-y on all platforms.

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YouTube, Instagram,

TikTok, and thank you guys.

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Hugh: Thanks.

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Peace.

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Speaker 4: Next call.

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We need some

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Speaker 5: justice, justice, justice.

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And I wanna ring bells in public.

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I wanna ring bes in public nor crowd.

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Yeah, but I To the fo Yeah.

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I To the fo Yeah.

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Speaker 6: I to the fo fo

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teaser.