Episode 30

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Published on:

13th Oct 2025

EP 30 Face Palm

The JudgeMental Podcast – Episode 30

In this episode of The JudgeMental Podcast, Christine and Hugh return to the studio after a month away to dive deep into the realities of family court, courtroom management, and the challenges attorneys face in front of the bench.

Christine shares her candid experiences from Jessica Stone’s courtroom, discussing the complexities of business taxes, the role of court-appointed experts, and the importance of clear judicial decision-making. Hugh offers his perspective as a seasoned attorney, reflecting on courtroom dynamics, attorney advocacy, and the impact of judicial transparency.

Key topics include:

Navigating family court and business tax issues

The pros and cons of court-appointed experts

The importance of effective courtroom management

Attorney strategies and the risks of negative advocacy

Real-life stories from the Kentucky legal system

Plus, Christine and Hugh tease an upcoming update about the judge-y app and website, designed to help attorneys and litigants navigate the court system more effectively. Stay tuned for more details on judge-y in the next episode!

Listen now for an honest, behind-the-scenes look at the legal world, only on The JudgeMental Podcast.

For more resources and updates, visit judge-y.com.

Transcript
Speaker:

You are listening to

The Judgemental Podcast.

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We're Hugh and Christine, the Minds

Behind Judgy, the revolutionary app

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that empowers you to judge the judges.

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It's pastime for judicial accountability

and transparency within the courts.

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Prepare for sharp insights, candid

critiques, and unshakable honesty from

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two lawyers determined to save the system.

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We need some justice.

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Justice, my fine justice.

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And I wanna ring, be in public.

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I wanna ring, be in public crowd.

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Yeah.

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Christine: All right.

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Well, it's good to be back in the studio.

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Let's go.

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It's been a month.

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I got lost on the way here.

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Seriously.

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Hugh: Oh my gosh.

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It's gotta be, it feels like

longer than a month, to be honest.

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Christine: Yeah.

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We did a lot remote and we had,

we've had so many things going down.

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I guess we can just jump right in.

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We're gonna have an update at

the end for you about the app.

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Hugh: Oh, okay.

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Christine: We're gonna make this short

and sweet, but we went to court on

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Monday and I kind of think I misbehave.

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Hugh: You know, I didn't notice.

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I know that somebody told you, you

gotta stop, like, making noise or like

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snickering or laughing or whatever.

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, I was sitting right next to

you, I didn't hear anything.

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Now it could have been all of

the thoughts in my head that were

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happening so loudly and the LOL the

alarms going off from what I was

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seeing, but , I really didn't notice.

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Christine: Yeah, we were in

Jessica Stone's courtroom.

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Y'all, she ran for judge because she went

through, I mean, , I do think there's

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altruistic reasons for why she ran, to

give her some of the benefit of the doubt.

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She'd gone through a divorce and

thought the system was a mess.

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She's an attorney.

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She's

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Hugh: right.

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Christine: Yeah.

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Hugh: I mean, what, what she said

when she was running about it, needing

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help and all, all, all correct.

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Christine: Yeah.

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But she is.

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I don't have the words and sometimes I did

TikTok on this, but I really, sometimes

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I can be, you know, the C word or I can

be dramatic or I can be intense or I

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can be tongue in cheek or I can be mean.

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Hugh: And you don't mean

collusion or conspiracy?

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No,

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Christine: but like, I'm

not even trying to be mean.

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Like somebody needs to

step in and help her.

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I'm happy to volunteer

my time to help her.

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I hope the attorneys help her.

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Some of the other judges she has an

absolute inability to understand anything.

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Worst courtroom management I've ever seen

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Hugh: I definitely don't think it

was like, I disagree on the work.

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Worse courtroom management, , I've

seen worse and I've seen motion

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hours that lasted much longer

because you know, without, without

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getting into , who those were.

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Now as far as how you.

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You react and how you handle

the arguments in front of you?

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I don't know that I've seen worse.

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Yeah.

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But the courtroom management side, sadly

I have, I have seen worse, but it was, I

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maybe, maybe I didn't notice you making

noises or doing anything because I wanted

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to just, I, in my head I'm screaming out.

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Christine: Yeah.

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Hugh: You know, she, she's trying to

sort out what was being said and I

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just, there's part of me was just like.

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They're saying this.

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Yeah.

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This is what they're saying.

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Not that you're, I knew exactly how she

was mishearing it, and the parties didn't,

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you know, the attorneys arguing wouldn't

know exactly like how to say, no, judge.

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That's not really what we're saying.

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Yeah.

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And I'm wanting to scream

it, and it was so painful.

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Just sit

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Christine: and watch.

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Well, I think that one attorney

in particular was taking advantage

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of the fact that the judge didn't

have any idea what was going on.

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I mean, y'all, this was like really,

I would say a pretty basic motion.

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It was talking about taxes and

people that own their own businesses.

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There's a different tax date

than there is for everyone else.

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I mean, and people file quarterly.

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This is not this is so basic for

anyone that's ever run a business.

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Right.

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Hugh: Yeah.

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I will say that.

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Throughout my time my, one of my

biggest pet peeves across the board

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in family court was I never felt

like I went in front of a judge

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that properly understood how to look

at business taxes, but, oh, yeah.

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I know from my practice, in certain

cases, you know, that five was one

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of the worst places you could be if

you're dealing with business taxes.

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And , I've even seen her.

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Look at gross income on a business

bank account and impute that as income.

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Yep.

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For maintenance purposes, which

is not statutory whatsoever,

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has not, you know Right.

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It completely ignores.

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We have a statute that says what

income is, but it requires you to know

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how to read a business tax return.

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Yep.

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And I've always struggled

with that in family court.

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I've, , I've used for a long time, I

would have financial experts come in.

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Oh, I think there's financial experts

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Christine: all over.

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And y'all, this, we go into

it this deep on episode six.

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Yes, I do have all of

the episodes memorized.

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It's weird.

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Good on

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Hugh: you.

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Good on you.

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Christine: But this was not even,

and in this case in particular, there

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is an expert that everyone's paying.

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I mean, just handing

out experts like crazy.

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But this was literally

just about filing taxes.

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Yeah.

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Hugh: There, yeah.

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And the, I mean, the argument.

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, I won't say how long, 'cause

I didn't look at my watch.

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It sure felt like it went

on for like 15 minutes.

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Christine: It was, it was over a 0.2

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just instinctually.

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And I remember just being

like, make a decision.

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Make a decision.

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But then it was like, and the way

that one of the attorneys spoke so

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negatively about the opposing party.

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Yep.

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That is one of my pet peeves for judges.

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Nip that shit in the bud.

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'cause all it does is just

kind of radicalize the party.

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But this one attorney,

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Hugh: yeah, that's true.

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Christine: And she's

a high asset attorney.

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She just talked about this woman as though

she was a dog and just talked about how,

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you know, there was an argument about

whether or not a state judge can order

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someone to sign a tax return without

reviewing it, and it was just silly.

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You know what I mean?

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It was stupid.

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Hugh: Yeah.

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But I was looking at it, you know,

from the attorney's points of view,

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I didn't have an, I mean, they

were advocating for their client.

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They were taking advantage of the

forum where they were arguing.

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I mean, yeah, you could see what

was going on, but it was, to a

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certain extent, smartly played.

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I mean, it may not be the best game, it

may not be the cleanest game to play,

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but as an advocate, , if you have,

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Christine: I'm gonna go hard on the

opposite side of that, because as

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an advocate, what you're doing is

you're increasing, you, you should,

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there should a balance there, right?

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Oh,

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Hugh: there's definitely a balance.

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If you create the, but she's increasing.

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Yeah.

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If you create, if you increase the

acrimony, so if the parties were

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there and that happened, like.

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I always found, you know, show my age back

when for the first half of my practice,

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people mediated in the same room.

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Yeah.

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The mediators would insist on it.

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It was awful.

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And you had people just started

the mediation by, the attorneys

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would get to make a statement and

they would sit, you know, the other

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attorney would bad mouth your client.

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Immediately, no one will settle.

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They're all dug in and

it was the dumbest thing.

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And I started insisting on, on

mediating separately because of that.

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So I agree with you if they're sitting

in the same room, but when you're sitting

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in front of a judge that if you paint

someone as the bad guy, they just get

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in their head that they're the bad guy

and they start ruling that way, you

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kind of know how to manipulate that.

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Well that though, when you're the attorney

in court and the clients weren't sitting

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in there and weren't necessarily gonna.

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Hear those comments.

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So I think that was for

the specific audience.

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Christine: Well, they're gonna run

home and tell their clients, but I

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think if attorneys are doing that,,

I think that's unprofessional.

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I, yeah, , I think it's borderline

sanctionable because what the

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attorney is doing though, is

if you essentially testifying.

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Hugh: If you are saying, yeah,

but you're making the argument,

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well, so here's what we don't know.

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We don't know how many times they've

come in front of the court, right?

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Because someone hasn't complied.

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Somebody is trying to get

someone to sign a tax return.

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I agree with you.

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If they've already been in front of

the court a lot because someone has

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not been complying and you are re just

reminding the court that this person

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never does what you say is never, you

know, if that's what you're saying.

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Christine: I didn't like it.

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Hugh: I think that's fair game.

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If.

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You are bringing facts in that

haven't already been presented

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to the court at past times.

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It sounded to me like this case

had gone on for a long time.

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One party had been in non-compliance on

a whole lot of things and the attorney

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was sort of reminding the judge of that.

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Well,

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Christine: and I think

that I could be wrong.

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You are wrong.

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I could

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Hugh: be wrong.

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Christine: Yeah, you are wrong.

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'cause I looked it up.

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Oh,

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Hugh: okay.

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I looked it up

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Christine: in depth and now, 'cause this

is one of those I saw and also there's an

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attorney on there that just personally.

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I've seen things, let's put it like that.

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Okay.

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But I did read everything, and this is one

of those cases where they have a expert

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that's appointed essentially just to

explain things to Judge Stone, which now

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that being said, I mean, that might make

sense 'cause Jesus take all the wheels.

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Hugh: I, I mean, listen, I used

to have to do it before the tax

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code changed in whatever, 2018 and

maintenance was taxable to the payer.

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No to the payee.

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Sorry.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It's taxable to the payor now.

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I see that the payee

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I would always get, you know, the

judges would say, okay, you make

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X amount, here's your expenses,

and then just forget about taxes.

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Never take into account taxes

when determining whether

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someone had enough to live on.

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They just didn't do it.

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And I would, I had someone that

fortunately didn't charge me

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a whole lot, it was like 300

bucks, but she would come in.

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She would testify for like 20

minutes to explain how that worked

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and still it would get screwed up.

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But the same person I would have come

in and testify about how business

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taxes were, and she was an accountant

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Christine: and so that's brilliant.

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And any person, this is America.

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So if you have a hundred thousand

dollars to spend on litigation, no, this

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Hugh: was like 300 bucks.

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I just found someone because they

were helping my clients who didn't.

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Christine: But my point is it

wasn't a court appointed expert.

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It was your

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Hugh: expert.

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No, but I had to do it because

I knew Okay, that the, the

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judge wasn't going to get it.

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Right.

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It would at least give me a

chance of getting a ruling.

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I didn't have to appeal.

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Christine: Well, I think that gives

us, though a great way to pivot.

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I, I have no problem with experts

to explain stuff to the court,

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but in this particular case,

there is a court appointed.

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So with that court

appointment comes immunity.

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There's a pointin court appointed

expert to explain things justice.

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I didn't

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Hugh: understand that that was

court appointed in that case.

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I thought they were just, they kept

referencing the account and I didn't

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realize that it was court appointed, and

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Christine: I've never seen

that, and that's dangerous.

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A court appointed

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Hugh: accountant, I've tried to

get it where we, I wanted some

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accountability and, and I wanted a

court appointed accountant who would

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feel that they can't be just, you

know, speaking to only one side.

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And now we know how with court

appointed, that doesn't guarantee

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it, but at least, mm-hmm.

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You had, you, you would hope, and there

are certain accountants do do a lot of

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the work within the court system and

I have, I don't have issues with them.

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I think they've done,

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Christine: it depends for me.

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Hugh: I mean,

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Christine: I wanna caveat

real quick 'cause I wanna

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be careful with what I said.

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If in any way I misspoke, if anything

I misspoke, we'll clear it up.

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Okay.

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It's my understanding as

a court appointed Yeah.

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Expert.

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Yeah.

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Hugh: I was simply saying that when I

was listening to it, I formed my opinions

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based on thinking, you know, there

were some assumptions 'cause I'd never

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looked at the case before and it just.

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You would've thought, I mean, my

main thought was you, if you read

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this motion beforehand, you would

have a ruling already in your head.

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No.

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You would ask the questions you needed

to make sure your ruling was right.

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Then you would move on.

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Yeah.

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It was clear that you're coming in

there not knowing anything about it.

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The attorneys are having to go in and

anytime you allow an attorney to explain

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the situation, they're going to spin it.

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Yep.

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That's what we do.

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Yep.

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If you read the pleadings, which.

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Attorneys still spin things in

pleadings, but were constrained a

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little bit more in written pleadings.

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You can read it, you get to ask the

questions at motion hour to figure

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out the things you might not know

need to make a ruling, but you don't

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wanna go in and have like a mini

hearing where, okay, what do you say?

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Okay, what do you say?

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And then the worst of it

was the thinking out loud.

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That's what scared me.

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It was like anytime there was a question.

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Christine: And tell me more.

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'cause Yeah.

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I want listeners to follow

who was thinking out loud?

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Oh,

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Hugh: the judge.

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The judge was thinking out loud.

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Mm-hmm.

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And well, so if I find this,

don't I have to do that?

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And it was like inviting the

decision into group discussion.

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And it was just like having

this open dialogue on your

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thought process going through.

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And I, I get how.

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No, you know, someone might want to

be, I wanna be transparent, here's

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what I'm thinking, blah, blah, blah.

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But that, it just wasn't helpful and

it just allows you to be manipulated

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because I'm sitting there with my attorney

hat on 'cause I'm sitting in court.

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Yeah.

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And.

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Every time you tell me what your thought

process is, I'm thinking of what I'm gonna

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say next to guide you in my direction.

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Mm-hmm.

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And you're just allowing

people to to game.

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To game things.

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I don't want to, I, God, I don't ever

want to judge sitting there and being so

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transparent that they're talking through

how they're getting from the X and y.

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Okay.

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And

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Christine: I know how smart you are

and like constantly, like in your head,

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you're constantly thinking of things

like, I'm the same way, like the voice

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in my head's going 400 miles an hour.

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Honestly, I think for this judge

that that's her internal voice, it's

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that slow and it's that not bright.

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Hugh: Oh.

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I don't know.

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I, I don't, I don't know her personally.

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I don't, yeah, I mean, you,

you may be right and God, God

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help us if, if that's true.

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But I, I,

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Christine: okay, I'm gonna tell a story

and I said I would never tell this story.

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We, Jessica Stone and I ran at the

exact same time we ran in:

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She was running for district

court judge at the time I was

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running for circuit court.

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I won't to say who I was covering for,

but I was covering for another criminal

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attorney, going to district court,

something that was a theft from Walmart.

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Literally, it was like the no one cares.

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Okay.

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And I was covering for the attorney

and the attorney's like, Hey, I

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just need to get a, this video

because there's other circumstances.

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Honestly, I didn't even listen.

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Criminal court, the

attorney wants the video.

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That's all that matters, right?

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Hugh: Sure.

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Christine: So it was pretrial.

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So I had Jessica Stone was

the prosecutor at the time.

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And I went in there and she was like,

well, one, why are you in this room?

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And I was like, well, because

this is where, this is the room

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that I was told to come to.

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Do you know what I'm saying?

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So then it was, she was.

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Raging.

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And I was like, okay, we're campaigning.

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I understand everyone's stressed out.

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And I was like, so and

so can't be here today.

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So and so is gonna be on Zoom.

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Realize.

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She's like, do you realize court's

not on Zoom anymore and the judge

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is going to blah, blah, blah?

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And I'm like, I don't care.

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It's not my case.

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It's a misdemeanor at Walmart.

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No one cares.

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Hugh: We, yeah, we just can,

can I get the video please?

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Yeah, please.

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With the cherry on top.

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Can we just do that and let me move on?

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Christine: Yeah.

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And so she's like, well, the judge isn't

gonna let you do the, I said, fine.

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Let's at least give me the folder so

I can take it in front of the judge

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so I can explain this to the judge.

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And if the judge wants to set it for a

jury trial this afternoon, I'll wing.

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Because this is stupid and no one cares.

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You know, you're not gonna

have your witness here.

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But she was just so, I mean, and

you get this a lot with prosecutors

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in Louisville in particular, they,

they think they have this godlike

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complex, but it got really like heated.

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And I remember just being like, I

don't wanna, this is not something

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that I ever wanna pick up, fight with.

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I'm literally just

covering for an attorney.

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This is like, whatever, you know?

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And I called the attorney

up and I was like.

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Please tell me that you slept with

this woman's husband or boyfriend.

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I don't know if she's married or

divorced or whatever at the time.

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And she was like, I have

never heard of this person.

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Because the reaction from Jessica

Stone, it was almost like it was

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Hugh: a personal hatred or something.

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It had to be,

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Christine: yeah.

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And and also just unnecessary and dumb.

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And I really think, you know,

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Hugh: it sounds, it sounds like

that viral video we watched Yeah.

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Where the person just wanted to get.

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You know, and filed something and

the court went off just like you

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:

don't have to file those things

and you just, yeah, I don't know.

404

:

Christine: But she had no idea.

405

:

I mean, at the time I thought that was

stupid with criminal, but whatever.

406

:

And, but she doesn't have any

understanding of, we watched

407

:

this over and over and over

again in her courtroom where.

408

:

She's thinking out loud.

409

:

You have to just make

a decision, you know?

410

:

Yeah.

411

:

She's too easily persuaded by

attorneys that can manipulate her

412

:

Hugh: well, and And she

sets herself up for it.

413

:

Yeah.

414

:

So I've seen that happen.

415

:

I've seen certain people

that were good at it.

416

:

I've been frustrated that when I was

trying to do it, someone else did

417

:

it better than me, and that was sort

of the game that was being played.

418

:

But, and

419

:

Christine: that's funny.

420

:

Hugh: I, you know.

421

:

I, I agree with you.

422

:

Not having, not known her personally,

but knowing sort of the backstory that

423

:

she came into it, trying to fix things.

424

:

So, yeah.

425

:

So from that point of view, I can

see going on the bench and trying

426

:

to be very transparent about how

I'm thinking and all this stuff.

427

:

And, and to be fair, her demeanor's nice.

428

:

Like she does, she's not one of those

that's going in there and yelling at

429

:

everybody on the bench like some of the

others, but she's, it's almost like.

430

:

Let's all sit down and talk this

through, and it's just like, that

431

:

is the exact opposite of what Yeah.

432

:

You need from the bench.

433

:

Like the attorneys, if they could

have talked that through Right.

434

:

They wouldn't be standing

there, I promise you.

435

:

Right.

436

:

The attorneys like, I

didn't mind going to court.

437

:

In fact, I liked it on a lot of things.

438

:

Yeah.

439

:

Attorneys, no matter how.

440

:

How much they just love billing

for everything or whatever.

441

:

Nobody wants to be in front of a judge

unless it's necessary and overtime's

442

:

stupid, and especially not motion hour.

443

:

Yeah, motions hours.

444

:

Motion hour sucks because he just

takes up so much of your time.

445

:

Especially if you're over there in person.

446

:

It's cutting out so much of your day that

you could be doing other things and so

447

:

much of it's not billable 'cause you're

traveling back and forth in his wait time.

448

:

Just if they could have worked

on this by having a, like a round

449

:

discussion, they wouldn't be there.

450

:

It's you that gets to just

ask the questions you need

451

:

and to make the decision.

452

:

Christine: Yeah.

453

:

And it should have been made.

454

:

I mean, and one of the attorneys,

y'all, I wanna be clear like.

455

:

This attorney was literally being

like, your Honor, go to 0.1,

456

:

add these words.

457

:

Go to 0.2.

458

:

Yeah.

459

:

Add these wor I've never

seen that, that I can recall.

460

:

Hugh: Oh, I have, I've seen it

where FOCs tell judges exactly what

461

:

to write in there and they do it.

462

:

I have seen that, but,

463

:

Christine: but not an emotion hour.

464

:

Not like this.

465

:

Hugh: No, no.

466

:

I've seen it.

467

:

, I've seen it overturned as well,

but no, this was, yeah, it was.

468

:

Christine: Yeah,

469

:

Hugh: that

470

:

Christine: was y'all.

471

:

If you're not watching us on YouTube,

it was literally, he just said it

472

:

with his face and body language.

473

:

Hugh: Yeah.

474

:

It was just, it was tough.

475

:

It was painful.

476

:

It was really tough.

477

:

It was like squirming in the seat.

478

:

And I remember because the

motion hour had gone so long

479

:

that the next one had started.

480

:

Yeah.

481

:

And there didn't seem to be any

more interesting motions or anything

482

:

really to report from five years.

483

:

Like, do you want to go on to the

next or do you wanna, I was like, yes.

484

:

Like, yeah, let's get

outta here right now.

485

:

Like this is, this is like.

486

:

Painful.

487

:

It was very painful.

488

:

And

489

:

Christine: then there was one case

that was like, well first off, that

490

:

attorney that was on Zoom, there was one

attorney on Zoom, one attorney on person.

491

:

The attorney on Zoom

just kept talking over.

492

:

So I look for patterns too.

493

:

Like on that first case we were

just talking about I, the reason I

494

:

went and researched it is because

it was like, what's that saying?

495

:

Doth protest too much.

496

:

Hugh: Yeah.

497

:

Christine: And I was like, this attorney

is just sitting here trying to vilify this

498

:

other person in a way that's just like.

499

:

Extraordinary and long-winded.

500

:

I wanna look into this

because it's, she lost me.

501

:

Like,

502

:

Hugh: did the judge

say something about it?

503

:

One of somebody that we watched said

something about speaking negatively,

504

:

like just reminded somebody to,

to dial it back a little bit.

505

:

It wasn't, I can't remember

who that was, wasn't

506

:

Christine: I Now she did.

507

:

When you had the person on Zoom, we're

not gonna mention attorney's names.

508

:

I'm not going to right now, but the

person that was on Zoom that she was just

509

:

talking completely over this attorney.

510

:

Oh, that's

511

:

Hugh: right.

512

:

You wouldn't let the other one speak.

513

:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

514

:

It

515

:

Christine: was, it was astonishing.

516

:

It was borderline.

517

:

If you do it again, I'm gonna

find you a hundred dollars.

518

:

'cause she wouldn't stop.

519

:

Hugh: Yeah.

520

:

Christine: And that's,

521

:

Hugh: I mean, that's

what you want them to do.

522

:

Christine: Yeah.

523

:

Right.

524

:

You want the judges to say, I mean, that's

525

:

Hugh: what do you want the judge to do?

526

:

Christine: But this was, it was

interesting 'cause it seems like it had

527

:

been on last week for the same motion,

and then the motion had been like the,

528

:

the judge immediately again tried to

defend herself or defend her staff.

529

:

And that's what got my ears perked up.

530

:

It was like, well, your motion,

you didn't leave blanks.

531

:

Which I don't even know what that meant.

532

:

Hugh: Oh, I forgot about this one.

533

:

Yeah.

534

:

Oh God.

535

:

I, and then it, it

536

:

Christine: was like we printed it out,

blocked it out, and it was like one page.

537

:

But so, but then there weren't

blanks and it's like, so this is the

538

:

Hugh: one where the staff threw the motion

539

:

Christine: allegedly

540

:

Hugh: away.

541

:

Christine: Yeah.

542

:

Hugh: Well, no, it, it was

alleged when before discarded

543

:

discard is what the words, yeah.

544

:

Oh, discarded.

545

:

Yeah.

546

:

Okay.

547

:

So I don't know what other

things you can do to discard

548

:

besides throwing something away.

549

:

I guess presumably you could eat it or you

could, I mean, I would imagine the best

550

:

case scenario would be throwing it away

giving the staff the benefit of the doubt.

551

:

But it was allegedly until we went

in there and the judge then was

552

:

just like, well, the reason it

got discarded, it was like, oh.

553

:

Now on the record.

554

:

Yeah.

555

:

We, we, we, we, we admit

that we, we got rid of it.

556

:

We threw it away, which is

557

:

Christine: a crime.

558

:

Hugh: It, yeah.

559

:

I mean,

560

:

Christine: I don't know

561

:

Hugh: if it is for the court itself.

562

:

If I went and did that, then I would be

locked up and should be, yeah, yeah, yeah.

563

:

If I went into, you know, went

into chambers of review a file and

564

:

pulled something and threw it away,

565

:

Christine: but the judge's

excuse was saying, well, it was

566

:

just one page and it was like.

567

:

Okay, so if you file something

through the circuit clerk and it gets

568

:

like, you file it electronically,

it goes to the circuit clerk

569

:

Hugh: and you have to file electronically

570

:

Christine: now.

571

:

Yeah.

572

:

And they like put it through their

little thing or whatever, and then they

573

:

print it out and put it in the file.

574

:

So to me, if I looked and there was

a one page motion without blanks,

575

:

because I guess last time they were

talking about blanks, I'd be like,

576

:

Hey, they only printed one of page.

577

:

Hugh: Go get, get a copy of this?

578

:

Yeah.

579

:

Or you know, I can log in and I can pull

a copy of any motion that's been filed.

580

:

It seems like that would've been

the thing to do, to tell somebody,

581

:

Hey, would you mind logging in?

582

:

Getting a copy of the file?

583

:

Only has one page of this.

584

:

Yeah.

585

:

Not, I mean, how do you go

from there to, well, it only

586

:

printed one page of the motion.

587

:

Let's just throw it away.

588

:

So we thought it didnt belong

and not put another motion in.

589

:

Yeah.

590

:

And we'll just pretend.

591

:

And eventually the person who filed

the motion will figure out we're not

592

:

doing anything and file it again.

593

:

Well, yeah.

594

:

Like is that what was gonna happen?

595

:

Christine: I guess because then

she said, you know, I'm sorry Mr.

596

:

Attorney, that you had

to go file the motion.

597

:

You didn't do anything wrong.

598

:

But if it's true that someone discarded,

which I think that's the exact verbiage,

599

:

they said that person should be terminated

or they should be doing something else.

600

:

That's way too dangerous.

601

:

And like your first thought is

when you have a court file Yeah.

602

:

And something doesn't look right,

let's just like throw it away.

603

:

Hugh: Well, and I will say, you know.

604

:

You don't know what's

happening behind closed doors.

605

:

, If I were, I mean, the inclination for the

court to defend the staff on that while

606

:

you're on the record, is understandable.

607

:

And there may be a reckoning

behind closed doors.

608

:

I don't know.

609

:

I mean, we won't know what happened

there, but it just, there were so many

610

:

ways to deal with that without having

to go through that, like just mm-hmm.

611

:

Get another copy, put it in the file

and then have the arguments on that

612

:

instead of like a 10 minute discussion

about how things got thrown away.

613

:

And then the bizarre thing was,

you know, the other attorney

614

:

in that case was alleging that

they, what they got was blank.

615

:

And yeah, I mean it was like, so

it doesn't matter anyway, judge.

616

:

'cause it was just a blank motion and it,

617

:

Christine: but then the judge

was saying it wasn't blank.

618

:

And that's also something that once the

judge realized that, I don't think you

619

:

should ex parte, but the judge should

have emailed both counsel and said,

620

:

Hey, let's have a meeting because.

621

:

Something went awry here and this isn't

okay because imagine how the attorney,

622

:

Hugh: but that happened all

the time in my practice.

623

:

If we, if people

624

:

Christine: would throw

625

:

Hugh: things away.

626

:

No, no, no, no.

627

:

That, something would get filed.

628

:

It would not be complete or something.

629

:

There would be, let's just say you

had a case management conference.

630

:

Yeah, yeah.

631

:

Middle of a case.

632

:

People said, okay, we're gonna

submit these by these dates.

633

:

Somebody gets something but it's

not complete and the judge wants to

634

:

know, is this the complete submission

or was there a transmission error?

635

:

'cause I wanna know if I can

take this under submission.

636

:

Either the judge, sometimes the

judge, or most likely a staff member

637

:

calls says, I'm calling about this.

638

:

Yeah.

639

:

I'm gonna get the other side on the phone.

640

:

Yeah.

641

:

Or shoots a group email out.

642

:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

643

:

And says, here's what happened.

644

:

Can you tell me was this intentional?

645

:

Or do you wanna send over

a copy of the full thing?

646

:

Yeah.

647

:

And it solves it.

648

:

Like, how the hell do you get to the

point where you're arguing about why?

649

:

Why your staff threw

away somebody's pleading.

650

:

Christine: Yeah, I mean it's,

and you know, again, we wanna de

651

:

dive and we wanna do a call out.

652

:

'cause this is what I notice a lot.

653

:

You know, we have a lot of missing tapes.

654

:

We do, we have a lot of problems.

655

:

And people that have tapes that

have been missing in Louisville

656

:

Hugh: and by tapes, you know, old

lady here is referring to the video.

657

:

The, the digital video files tv.

658

:

Christine: But you know, and I didn't

know that when I was practicing,

659

:

Hugh: you didn't know what

660

:

Christine: that tapes went missing

or that that stuff was missing.

661

:

I really didn't experience that problem.

662

:

But if anyone listen, listening is

in division five, or frankly anywhere

663

:

in Louisville Family Court, and you

filed something and you have reason to

664

:

believe it's been thrown away or was

not made a part of the file, and you

665

:

have a receipt where it was e-filed.

666

:

Submit it to judge y 'cause patterns

show everything and we can, we

667

:

promise to continue to look into it.

668

:

I know we're trying to do these a little

bit shorter so y'all can listen to 'em at

669

:

work and we can get more stuff out to you.

670

:

I think we wanted to talk

about more, but y'all C-L-E-C-E

671

:

CLEs for Judge Jessica Stone.

672

:

I am not trying to be mean.

673

:

, Judges help her out.

674

:

Attorneys don't go to that division.

675

:

You gotta try to get stuff settled.

676

:

Hugh: Yeah, , I agree.

677

:

I mean, that's, that's

how I felt initially.

678

:

I just hoped that it had gotten

better, but I'm, , I think

679

:

it might've gotten worse.

680

:

Christine: Yeah.

681

:

Hugh: So, I mean, since I practice,

since I was last practicing

682

:

earlier, you know, early this year,

683

:

Christine: terrifying enough.

684

:

All right, judge y.com,

685

:

the soon to be app, we promised

you an update and we're gonna give

686

:

it to you on the next episode.

687

:

Mm-hmm.

688

:

Hugh: Bye.

689

:

Thanks.

690

:

Next call.

691

:

We need some justice, justice, justice.

692

:

And I wanna ring bells in public.

693

:

I wanna ring bes in public nor crowd.

694

:

Yeah, but I To the fo Yeah.

695

:

I To the fo Yeah.

696

:

I to the fo fo teaser.

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About the Podcast

The JudgeMental Podcast
From the Creators of Judge-y
The JudgeMental Podcast features two attorneys, Hugh and Christine, who bring over three decades of combined litigation experience to the mic. Now venturing into a bold new initiative—"Judge-y", a website and soon-to-be app—they aim to give lawyers and litigants a platform to evaluate judges and promote accountability within the judiciary.

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Hugh Barrow