Episode 9

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Published on:

8th Aug 2025

EP 09 Special Episode

In this special on-site episode of The Judgmental Podcast, hosts Hugh and Christine take you inside the courthouse for a candid, real-time discussion about judicial accountability and transparency. They break down a recent controversy involving a judge’s use of TikTok to record a domestic violence hearing, explore the ethical and legal implications of judges recording court proceedings for personal gain, and share their heated exchange with former judge and current court administrator McKay Chauvin. Tune in for sharp insights, behind-the-scenes stories, and the tough questions that need answers about privacy, public records, and the future of justice in the digital age. Plus, the hosts invite listeners to join the investigation and share their own questions for future episodes.

Transcript
Speaker:

You are listening to

The Judgemental Podcast.

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We're Hugh and Christine, the Minds

Behind Judgy, the revolutionary app

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that empowers you to judge the judges.

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It's pastime for judicial accountability

and transparency within the courts.

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Prepare for sharp insights, candid

critiques, and unshakable honesty from

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two lawyers determined to save the system.

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We need some justice.

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Justice, my fine justice.

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And I wanna ring, be in public.

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I wanna ring, be in public crowd.

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Yeah.

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Christine: Welcome to a special

episode of the Judgmental Podcast.

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We are actually on site at the courthouse,

and we want to update you about a

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scenario that just happened in real time.

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Hugh: Yeah, well, we were sitting

hooking up microphones and deciding what

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courts to go check out and what we might

want to sit through and, and watch.

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And McKay Chauvin the court

administrator happened to be

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standing nearby and Christine said

hello and started a conversation

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with him about quite a few things.

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Christine: Yes.

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And McKay Chauvin is a

former circuit court judge.

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He's the current court administrator.

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There was a scenario that

happened in February of:

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where a family court judge.

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Secretly selfie recorded a

domestic violence hearing from

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the bench and posted it to TikTok.

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After that, the local news was

interested in running a story WDRB.

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And at that time, McKay Chauvin

went on the record for WDRB

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and the story never happened.

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Hugh: What do you mean explain?

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He went on the record for them.

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Christine: So when the news reaches out to

you, they'll often ask you, do you wanna

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go on the record or stay off the record?

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And there was like a questionnaire.

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And again, this was back

in February of:

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It is August 8th, 2025, and certainly

I was aghast personally about seeing

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this judge, in my opinion, exploit

a victim of domestic violence.

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And utilize a domestic violence

hearing for hashtags and for TikTok.

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That was my personal belief.

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So you're

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Hugh: creating clickbait out of

somebody's horrible experience while

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they're sitting in front of you crying,

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Christine: right?

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And you could tell it

was a selfie recording.

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Like you could look, you could tell.

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And at one point she almost

posed for the camera.

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I was obviously mortified by it, and

that's what started my personal journey

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in just saying Enough is enough.

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And like we've talked about before,

when I first started this, I really

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thought it was a Louisville issue.

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And then the more I've looked into

it, I realized how much this is

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happening throughout the country.

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Hugh: Oh, sure.

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They're very popular judges on

TikTok and other social media

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that have their own accounts.

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Mm-hmm.

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And they selectively choose proceedings to

record and post, and they have followings.

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You know, not knowing what Shaban said on

the record, necessarily to the reporters,

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that that resulted in that story not being

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Christine: oh, we know run.

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No, we know because he typed it up

and the reporter sent his responses.

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Hugh: Okay.

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Well, I, I just was, you know, I, I've

always been wondering how the distinction

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is made at the administrator level

or at the any, anyone that has any

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control over it at that level, because.

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You're allowing somebody to use the court

process for personal gain, and I always

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suspected that it was given a free pass

because well, court proceedings are

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public and they're recorded anyway, so

who cares if another person records it?

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The interesting thing is they care

very much who else records it and

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when asked whether we could record

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Christine: right.

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Hugh: We were told that the

judge would have to give special

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permission to do it because they

control their courtroom, which,

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Christine: yeah.

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And not actually that judge, not the

former Judge McKay, the actual judge

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in the courtroom, which means that the

judge at all times would know whether

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or not that record button was on.

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And that's the thing about the

selfie recording that you and I

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have talked about, where if they

know they're recording, are they

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being performative for social media?

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Hugh: Sure.

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And if, if, you know, not on this

particular instance, but if you see.

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You see some of the judges that are

on TikTok that have these hearings and

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they have these outsized reactions to

things, you know, that are in front of

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them every single day, and it's so clear

that they're doing it because they're

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recording and they are wanting to get

followers, and they're wanting people

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to click on and watch that video and see

how they, you know, how they treated this

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deadbeat father or something like that.

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That's influencing what happens in the

courtroom that is very different than

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the public's interest in seeing what

goes on in the courthouse or the press's

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interest in the courts being open.

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This is something that is actually having

an effect on how a judge rules on a case.

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Yes, treats litigants, and

that is a very different thing.

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It also.

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I mean, it's just part of how

the judges like to try to act

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in the shadows a little bit.

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That Amen.

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If they can record anything they

want, they're going to and and they

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control when they're being recorded

and all other circumstances, then

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they can make sure that it's very

hard for people to see bad behavior.

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Yes.

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You would have to randomly pick.

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Cases, I mean, from the public record

and watch in order to find anything.

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Christine: It's very much like a

dictatorship if you think about it.

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They're only gonna record and

post things that are in the

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light most favorable to them.

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Sure.

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Like even if they actually are recording

and they make a mistake or they mistate

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the law, then they can just delete it.

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And that's what's like, let's talk about

the conversation with McKay, which.

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Did get a little heated.

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I mean, I certainly just said, Hey, McKay,

and he said, I heard you're talking shit.

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And we talked about the WDRB article.

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He said he can't control the news

and that, you know, he was asked

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something and he just answered it.

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And so it wasn't news.

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But what was the most interesting to me

is he said there was no problem with it.

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He said there

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Hugh: was absolutely no problem

with it, with the judge recording.

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Anything and everything that

they want in their own court and

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recording it however they want

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Christine: it at.

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Any time.

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Yeah,

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Hugh: at any time.

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And

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Christine: doing whatever

they want with it.

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Yeah.

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And so it's not actually

like those records.

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Are not held by the circuit clerks,

like the formal record, the official

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court record is held by David

Nicholson, the circuit clerk, and

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so you can go get a copy of it.

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But this just really begs the question,

I have always been under the belief

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that the TikTok judge, Denise Brown, was

recording much more than what she posted.

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But how many recordings are

out there from these judges?

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How long are they holding them?

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Where are they holding 'em?

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What devices are they storing them on?

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And are they trying to essentially like.

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Get content to be a judge Judy once

they retire, to use these people's

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traumas in order to get fame.

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Hugh: Well, I mean that begs the question

about if you are, if you are using it

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for your personal commercial interest

and you don't have the permission of the

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people that you're using in the video.

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I mean, yes, this is a public forum, but.

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Not sure how public it really is.

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If you control who has

access to it and who films,

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Christine: right?

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What's good for the goose is good for

the gander, and we would never be able

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to go in and just pop out a recording.

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Also, their reasoning for us not being

able to go in with our cell phone tomorrow

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and record is the fact that it's not

the full hearing, but the judges are

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allowed to just pick and pull from the

stuff that would be the most salacious.

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Also, I've always thought about this.

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And if you look at the way the TikTok

judge was recording, it appears to

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me that it's like over on this side.

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And so that would mean that she's got

a setup that she knows is gonna be

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in an angle that's favorable to her.

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But if she's sitting there listening

for testimony that she knows could

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be clickbait before she pushes that

button and then gets performative.

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Which, just the ability to multitask

and listen, give litigants like full

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attention to hear the facts of the

case and adjudicate the case when

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you're worried about creating content.

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Hugh: No, I, I agree though.

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You just touched on my two biggest

concerns with this because if

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it is open, anyone can record.

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It's a public forum, then I think

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in and of itself, that's not a problem.

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If a judge records, if we record,

if it's fair and everything is

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open, my biggest issue with it is.

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If you're planning it for content

and you're multitasking, you're

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serving two roles while you're

sitting up there, you're not giving

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the case the proper attention.

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And I, I mentioned this a little

bit earlier while I was following

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around trying to keep notes of who

was here for the judicial roll call.

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I'm, I, I'm not that old, but I can't

multitask all that well if I was listening

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to something that very well could be life

or death for a domestic violence victim.

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And I'm really just thinking about

looking out for clickbait content.

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That really concerns me

about what the judge can do.

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Mm-hmm.

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The other piece is the

performative aspect of it.

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If you know that, that you are

recording for a specific purpose to

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get clicks, to get followers, you're

going to act in a way that would be

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different than if you're not recording.

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Christine: Yep.

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You're acting in your own best

interest, not a child's best

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interest, and not following the law.

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That wouldn't be your priority,

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Hugh: and at the very least.

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If you're trying to be Judge Judy,

which you're, you're, you know,

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you're doing it for ratings, you're,

you're still acting as a judge.

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But if you're doing that, you

need the opt-in for the people to

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go on the show like Judge Judy.

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Mm-hmm.

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You need to say, okay guys, is

it all right if I record this?

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Do you mind or you sign

something letting me use it.

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For these purposes, which are not

archiving the public record or

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keeping official record, they are

for somebody's personal financial

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gain and for followers online/

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Christine: Yeah, but it certainly,

let's get back into McKay's

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questioning or his discussion with me.

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I don't even know that.

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Was a question.

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I feel like he was a little

bit, and I mean, again, I

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don't like to do the mentality.

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I'm an attorney.

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He's an attorney.

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We sometimes get heated.

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I cannot get my feelings hurt.

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I am not in any capacity trying

to be that sort of attorney.

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But I did think it was heated.

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Did you?

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Hugh: It was heated.

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He, I mean, he came over, he was very

polite at the very beginning, said,

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how are you, and actually could have

easily just been like, oh God, it's her.

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And walked away.

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Totally.

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Totally.

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And so he came over to.

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Speak and you just asked

him if he'd been listening.

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He said, no, I haven't been listening,

but I hear you're talking shit.

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Christine: Yeah.

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Well, he actually said I said, we

were here for judicial roll call.

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There were 16 judges on the bench.

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And he's like, well,

you're wrong about that.

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Yeah.

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And I think I said, teach me.

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But I did ask if he'd like to have a

sit down and he said, not a chance.

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Which I just think,

you know, I understand.

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I don't understand, to be honest,

because I will tell you with

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a hundred percent certainty.

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Unequivocally, without question,

y'all, I've been wrong before

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and I will be wrong again.

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Okay.

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And I think that one of my biggest

complaints about judges is their

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inability to understand that they

may not get it right all the time.

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Hugh: Yeah.

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Christine: You know, like, I'm

not bating a thousand, are you?

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Hugh: Always.

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Absolutely.

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Christine: And so the other takeaway

we talked about, like the goose and

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gander and just the fact of like, where

are these where are these recordings?

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But that's the point.

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So what if for some reason there was

a malfunction with JAVs and there is

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not an official court record, would

the judge's cell phone and personal

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devices be discoverable in litigation?

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Hugh: Oh, that would be very interesting.

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I mean.

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I don't know that it would be

usable unless, as, as a, an official

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record or a a, a full recording.

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'cause I'm sure they're not

recording the full thing.

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No, but, but making it discoverable

because the video record didn't

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actually happen or got lost

or got corrupted or something.

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Christine: Well, no, but also,

you know, when you record here in

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Kentucky, you, it's not a live stream.

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It's not constantly recording.

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They put the button on, but they push the

button and then the red light goes on.

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So when you're walking into the

courtroom that I could very easily

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see a scenario in which when walking

into a courtroom, a party opponent, a

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litigant in the case, said something

that could potentially be relevant.

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So I really think lawyers of

Louisville, you guys have an absolute

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obligation in every single hearing to

ask if the judge is recording this.

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Because what if there is information

that you need for your client's

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case on a device, I mean a

statement by a party opponent?

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Oh

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Hugh: yeah.

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I, I mean, I used, yeah, you, you know,

the judges oftentimes leave the audio

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on before the hearing starts and the

parties and the attorneys are just

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sitting there, but the judges back with

their staff getting ready and they have

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the audio on and they hear everything

that you're saying in the courtroom.

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Mm-hmm.

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And I was amazed at how few people knew

that and could be baited into saying

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things that were gonna make the judge

matter to say something about the judge

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while you're sitting there and 90%

chance the judge actually heard it.

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The judge beforehand should

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Christine: not be doing that.

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Hugh: Well, they, if you ever

go back in chambers before Yeah.

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You will hear the client sitting there.

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They have the audio and

they can hear the audio.

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So I, I would have fun and if I could

get an attorney to say something about,

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well, if the judge would ever do,

they were like, say something nasty.

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So the judge was already angry

at them when they came in.

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It.

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It's absolutely true.

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Christine: It also begs the

question, is the judge making

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themselves a potential witness in a

case over which they're presiding?

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What if one party walked in and said

like, what if you and I had a domestic

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violence case against one another?

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We walked in before there was any sort

of recording, and I said to you, I'm

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gonna follow you after this and I'm gonna

get you and we're not on record yet.

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Or if

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Hugh: someone came in, of course he

did it, but you just can't prove it.

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Yeah.

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And then said that, and it came through

the audio and the judge heard in the back.

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That creates a big problem,

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Christine: or not even that, but

if the judge is secretly recording,

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I mean, that is discoverable.

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There are.

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Ton of ethical issues.

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Hugh: Oh, you want me to

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Christine: plethora, plethora issues.

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Y'all my favorite verbiage.

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But we really wanna know

what questions you have.

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And this does, we are gonna start

doing big in-depth investigation on

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different stuff, and we really want to

make sure that we do it the right way.

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We're not trying to be clip ba.

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We want y'all to have all the facts.

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We don't wanna just come in and say a few

little snippets, and so bear with us while

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we try to gather all that information.

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But one thing I want to know is whether

or not judges have a duty to tell

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lawyers if they're recording them.

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Hugh: Yeah.

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I, I would like to know the

regulations behind that.

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I would like to know, I think it

would be interesting to see how

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different jurisdictions treated it.

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Mm-hmm.

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But for here in Louisville, the best

way for us to learn about that is for.

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Mr.

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Shavan to come in here and judge

Shavan to come in and talk to us

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and tell us his side of why he

believes that there's absolutely no

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problem with the judge selectively

recording parts of a very intimate.

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Hearing.

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Mm-hmm.

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And then using it for

her own financial gain,

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Christine: allegedly.

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Additionally, you know, we are media

and so he just, he has zero issue.

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It'd be one thing if a judge has

a strict policy or a former judge.

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I do not interact with media.

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I do not speak with media.

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But why is it, he indicated to me

that he can't control what stories

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get ran, but why would he speak

to some reporters and not others?

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Hugh: Yeah.

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Well, and certainly the judges can control

what stories get run if they don't.

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Permit people to record in the courtroom.

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Christine: Absolutely.

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All right, y'all, we want

to know your questions.

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This is Judgey investigates on the fly

at the actual courthouse tech issues.

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Stay with us.

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Thank y'all.

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Next call.

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We need some justice, justice, justice.

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And I wanna ring bells in public.

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I wanna ring bes in public nor crowd.

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Yeah, but I To the fo Yeah.

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I To the fo Yeah.

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I to the fo fo teaser.

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Christine: Thanks.

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The JudgeMental Podcast
From the Creators of Judge-y
The JudgeMental Podcast features two attorneys, Hugh and Christine, who bring over three decades of combined litigation experience to the mic. Now venturing into a bold new initiative—"Judge-y", a website and soon-to-be app—they aim to give lawyers and litigants a platform to evaluate judges and promote accountability within the judiciary.

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